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Wisconsin and Hawaii primary coverage

[Open thread over at TalkLeft. Say, is it a coincidence that DK is the same color as Cheetohs? I'm guessing no.]

Please refer to your handbook under "Clinton Rules."

Everything Hillary does is wrong and she should drop out immediately and apologize for running.

No need to discuss.

We now return you to our regular programming.

NOTE For any margin lower than 30%, she stole the election. Sorry, I forgot.

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BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Which, of course, doesn't count because the Democratic party elite didn't like the idea of giving their influence up to the masses in a primary.

Or, you know, what Digby said (http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/d... )

I had hoped the Washington primary turned out to be in line with the caucus so we wouldn't have another fucked up state to deal with, but I've changed my tune. I'm all for creating the biggest giant clusterfuck the Democratic party has ever seen. They deserve it. The Obama campaign with its Fuck Democrats positioning deserves it. So while I doubt it will happen, I hope many more Democrats go to the polls in Washington today and that the results do not come anywhere near mirroring the caucuses. Preferably, I'd like to see a Clinton win, but even a Clinton 10% loss would hardly be the same as the 2-1 caucus fiasco and would be a nice piece of evidence to rebut the claims of overwhelming Obama support in those caucus states.

So, I'm embracing my inner Jon Stewart, Clusterfuck to the White House. Unless, Clusterfuck is two words, then Cluster Fuck to the White House!

Sima's picture
Submitted by Sima on

wins the WA state primary.

I more or less expected that (I live in WA state). Right now, with 56% reporting, he's got 50%, Hillary has 47%, Edwards has 2%, Kucinich 1% (gotta love WA state wobblies!).

Link here

So what's that say about the caucus, which he took 2 to 1 and sometimes higher?

My circle of friends and family hate the caucus, just hate it. And WA state voters do too, they keep trying to vote in a primary system without caucuses, and the party keeps ignoring it. Maybe this time they'll listen.

Joebasic's picture
Submitted by Joebasic on

The sneering, snide outright hatred that he has for the hillary campaign is worse than Faux news..
This is beyond pathetic..I can barely watch him anymore. He is doing some riff on the Hillary campaign, ragging on and on about the politico story.
Ummmm..
Roger Simon alleges an un-named Clinton source said they would pursue pledged delagates..Clinton denies.
Olberman takes Simons words as the unvarnished truth..and the Clinton camp is lying..
Un-frikken-believable.
I used to like this guy..it is a sad day when MSNBC not only tries..but succeeds in outfauxing faux?
What have we become..
Joebasic
Recovered DU member

Submitted by Paul_Lukasiak on

according to the Wisconsin exit polls, 9% of the voters were Republicans, and they went for Obama by 72-28% percent. The highest percentage in any previous primary this year was 7%.

....and anyone who doesn't think misogyny is a factor, when the women's vote is 50-50, and men went for Obama by more than 2-1 (67-31%) needs to have their heads examined.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

as the late, great Shirley Chisholm once said. But then again, she also said, "There is little place in the political scheme of things for an independent, creative personality, for a fighter. Anyone who takes that role must pay a price." I don't know about creative, but I think over the last 20 years, Hillary Clinton has certainly paid a price for being independent and a fighter.

I admit that this campaign season, I've wondered a lot about what Ms. Chisholm would think. I suspect she'd be proud of Senator Obaam's accomplishments, while outraged at Senator Clinton's treatment (including at times by Senator Obama). Here's a link to her speech in favor of the ERA - http://gos.sbc.edu/c/chisholm.html

They don't make them like her and Barbara Jordan any more, more's the pity, IMO.

I do think Hillary will continue to fight, at least through March 4. She has a very strong sense of history and I suspect understands her role better than many of her supporters. There is a benefit in her fighting the good fight, just as there was for Jesse Jackson to do it. Even if she doesn't win, women win. And she'll always be the first woman to win a presidential primary. That's huge. And important, even if all those college girls don't understand that now.

If it turns out Hillary Clinton will not be the first female president of the United States, the first one is going to owe her a helluva debt of gratitude.

Of course, Clinton could still be the nominee. She probably still has a 25-30% chance. And Obama could falter in November, giving her another chance in 2012.

Sima's picture
Submitted by Sima on

but the feeling in my gut says not to expect it.

Was talking to my Mom tonight, she's in her 60's. Anyway, she said she's resigned never to see a woman president in her lifetime. She says she won't stop fighting for it, but doesn't expect it. She said if she had little granddaughters she'd not know what to tell them. Because it's damned obvious that girls can NOT do the same things boys can do, not in this screwed up society.

And she's REALLY angry at the Democratic bigwigs who trotted out the misogyny and sexism and didn't even blink to use it to beat down the woman candidate. Well, I agree with her. And I don't want to hear platitudes about wrong candidate, wrong time, Hillary's just damaged goods, not right, great in the Senate (do you know how much that sounds like great in the kitchen?) but not as a President, bleh, bleh fuggity bleh. Because you know what? There ain't no other woman out there as ready, as prepared, as strong, as smart, as experienced. None. And you know what? If there was, well she'd be the wrong candidate at the wrong time, damaged goods, not right for the moment...

Submitted by lambert on

So any time you hear the OFB yammering about the will of the people you can courteously point out that it discriminates against the poor, the working poor, the chronically ill, those with child care issues, and those without cars. Oddly, or not, there's overlap there with Hillary voters...

Now, you can make the point that Obama leveraged the unfairness brilliantly, and attracted Republicans in open primaries, so he's the winner, and god bless him. But it doesn't change the unfairness, which should be fixed.

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

chicago dyke's picture
Submitted by chicago dyke on

seriously. thank you for this:

great in the Senate (do you know how much that sounds like great in the kitchen?)

oh, wow. that is soooooo right and perfect, that's exactly what the subnarrative is about. /bows in your direction/

and if i may: "damaged goods" = slutty, not virginal, impure, all the rest of that crap that only applies to vaginal-amurkins.

Sima's picture
Submitted by Sima on

I'll go so far as to say they think she's damaged because of her reaction to the problems in her marriage. If she'd left him, damaged. She stayed and kept working on the marriage, damaged in another way. Supposedly didn't provide the sex life Bill needed, damaged. If she'd provided it, damaged (and how the hell do we know what their intimate life is like? I don't even want to know). Ohh these people saying these things make me so mad.

She can't win for trying. And the more I see of this, the onslaught of dumptruck loads of hatred against women veiled as 'practical points', the angrier I get. I'm pissed off big time, big time. Obama could have fought his battles and denied the sexism. Kennedy could have denounced the sexism, Dean could... they all could. And they don't.

So I know EXACTLY whose best interests they have in mind, and it ain't mine. Which means my whole political outlook has changed. To me, the Democratic party is now a means to an end, not the end in itself. And if they don't get aboard with women, then I'm dumping them as soon as something better comes along. And that means electing new blood into their precious lifetime held seats in Congress.

Sorry, I sort of went on a rant there.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

Sima, I hear you. It's not that I didn't know sexism existed, I'm not a kid, I know it exists and I've seen it first hand. But still I can't shake the feeling that Hillary's run has brought out so much hate, so much vitriol and often from liberal men and, yes, women! It's like thinking that you live in once society and then waking up and realizing you live in another. Extremely depressing and I wasn't that excited about the society I thought I lived in.

I will never forgive Howard Dean and the other so-called party leaders who stood by quietly while one of their stars, a former first lady, a sittiing Senator was the victim of repeated sexist attacks. Because I got news for them, women are the majority of the electorate and the democratic party. Jesse Jackson talked about the need to heal rifts today and, while I agree with what he said, I noticed there wasn't a single mention of the biggest rift of all - the alienation of a good number of women. And if they don't care, they should because none of them - Kennedy, Kerry, Warner - are staying in that Boys' Club they've got if women sit home instead of vote.

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

There are Obama supporters now openly saying, "send her back to the Senate." And thanks to you, Sima, when I hear it, I now hear it as "send her back to the kitchen" which works for me because it's what I think many of them mean.