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Well, so much for Bernie

To the left of Hillary only in that he wants more cover. Yay!

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nippersdad's picture
Submitted by nippersdad on

Little surprise that no one else wants a piece of that tar baby, but why is it considered hawkish to aid those who have always wanted to help themselves? Pottery Barn rule aside, the Kurds have been wanting their own sovereign nation since long before Poppy Bush sold them out. Seems like it is the least we could do at this point to lend them a hand. Especially insofar as we had such a large part in the creation of that which threatens them.

I have far less patience with the Sunni and Shia factions; they are largely the authors of their own reality these days, but the Kurds and Yezidi seem to have been working in good faith to promote the creation of their own state. Turkey and Iran may not like it as it will affect their own border security, but then they haven't really done much to alleviate the situation in Iraq, have they? The same could be said for most of the rest of the M.E., who have been working at cross purposes as well.

It is all too fucked up for words, but it seems to me that the one bright spot in this mess is Kurdistan.

Submitted by lambert on

I feel about our liberal interventionists rather like Phillip Larkin felt about his parents. I know it's a category error to think of a class of persons as having the characteristics of a person, but I'm thinking of outcomes, here:

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

Mom and Dad = liberal interventionists

Kids = wartorn countries / POV of poet

"And don’t have any kids yourself" = Just get the fuck out and stop meddling.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

nippersdad's picture
Submitted by nippersdad on

I am thinking about outcomes as well. We have not acquitted ourselves with honor in the M.E., and this is biting us in the ass. If something can be salvaged from the mess, however small, it needs to be done.

I don't know if this is the thin edge of the wedge or not, but I do know that we have put people in danger. It is our responsibility, our duty, to rectify that error in judgment.

Of course, we are a nation run by war criminals, so there is that. There is the argument that honor cannot be expected of those who so conspicuously lack it, but to just cynically check out on the assumption that any effort made on someone elses' behalf has an ulterior motive implies a loss that it would be well to recognize up front.

We are what we do.

Submitted by lambert on

... on the balance sheet. It's interesting to have Thai coup supporters throw Abu Ghraib at US critics. "Who are you to say?" They have a point.

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi

nippersdad's picture
Submitted by nippersdad on

They absolutely have a point!

We lost the moral high ground a long time ago and cannot expect to regain it unless and until we regain it. If one acts like a thug it should surprise absolutely no one when one is called a thug.