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"I have to look beyond [the bailout] to a rainbow called Obama," he said. "When you bring in the Obama factor, that's very very important."So, after Obama is elected... then what?
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In 2003, a young Illinois state senator named Barack Obama told an AFL-CIO meeting, "I am a proponent of a single-payer universal healthcare program." -- Bill Moyers.
Per capita health care spending (2003):
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-- Bob Somerby
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Comments
Reach me that bucket, wouldja hon?
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
that should be D-Jamestown
--he's overdosing on the koolaid
Kool-Aid was Jonestown
That was the gag. Not that the quote wasn't enough to gag on.
oops--sorry
i sorta got the gag then--but thought it was jamestown...
Well, it may be the most noteworthy settlement
since Jamestown.
i guess- i should know better tho--
i know it was Jim Jones and koolaid, etc--so i should have known it was Jonestown...
i'm getting old, i guess--or it's that i've turned off my brain since getting laid off last wk....i'm slowly decompressing and regaining my life...
I know what to do - more spiteblogging!
After Obama is elected we should continue writing snarky posts about how much he totally suxxx!
Especially ones that seem motivated by hurt feelings over the primary as opposed to genuine policy differences.
That should really work well to get the Obama team's attention and steer them towards decisions that benefit all of us.
It's been working great so far.
he has almost no policy differences anymore from McCain--
haven't you been paying attention?
it is about policy.
Well played, sir!
Obama's sucky actions are actually the fault of those Democrats who think he's not living up to what the moment needs and would allow.
And, obviously, criticism of this stratospheric boondoggle (which reflects badly on Hillary Clinton as well) surely is motivated by hurt feelings about the primaries, not concern that hundreds of billions of dollars are being express-mailed to the most toxic of corporatists at the blink of an eye.
The key thing, I now see, is to do a better and better job of not noticing when Obama sells us down the river. That's what progressive blogging is all about, but of course!
If you think you're so damn funny, why don't you pay my share of
the bailout? You know, the one your candidate fought for?
"You'd better get this straight. Wise up before it's too late." -- Sister Sledge
Ain' no mo' Motown Review
And the Beatles have broken up too
JFK has been shot
We miss him a lot
He always knew what to do
-- Philly Cream
Also, some time I should tell you in detail...
... what happened when I twice reached out to the Obama camp to open channels of communication with PUMAs and likeminded folks to get them on-board with supporting him. I only wish I'd been snarky instead of optimistic.
And, when I tried to enlist Obamaites in collecting anti-McCain oppo on Democratic Underground, the mods shut down the thread because it simply wouldn't do for the true believers to have to play nice with an outed skeptic.
I'm sorry you feel that way
Maybe you can go through my posts on the crisis and "blue pencil" the ones you find especially "spiteful" [UPDATE And "grieving" LOL!] so I can revise the wording? Let me know!
Just out of curiousity, does anybody have any concrete example of progressives influencing Obama to do anything?
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Silly,
Progressives won't be able to influence Obama until they love him with sufficient purity.
I believe that state is known as being "clear."
I'd like to broaden that question, at the cost of restating a
comment I made on another thread.
Obama says and does whatever he damn well pleases, always. So my question is: can anyone show us where Obama has EVER been influenced to ANY degree by ANY non-connected public force, since the day he entered politics?
Anyone? Bueller?
"You'd better get this straight. Wise up before it's too late." -- Sister Sledge
Ain' no mo' Motown Review
And the Beatles have broken up too
JFK has been shot
We miss him a lot
He always knew what to do
-- Philly Cream
I keep drawing blanks on the quotes...
... that make me think the idea that "we can influence Obama after the election" is weak. I keep meaning to post on it, but with the press of events....
1. Is Obama's post on DK, the whole "I don't read blogs" thing (although somebody in his campaign clearly does [This might change, of course, with the excellent work Tier Two did for Axelrod on Palin]
2. Is Obama's remark to some protestors down in FL (which can't remember the details of)
3. Is Obama's remark on FISA, which was, essentially, "If you don't like it, then don't vote for me."
Can anybody firm up my recollections on these?
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Wait, Hillary voted for the bailout?
I wouldn't have known that from reading your posts this week. But let's not get into a whole pie-fight thing, which I think you'll agree is over now?
When folks like Ian Welsh and Glenn
ReynoldsGreenwald write criticisms of Obama on policy it sounds more persuasive to me because they lack the grieving, snarky tone your and Lambert's posts are soaked in.Far be it from you to revisit the "pie fight," eh?
Sorry for grieving over the loss of the Constitution, the Democratic Party, the progressive blogosphere, and the billions and trillions.
Next time, I'll be sure to lie back and enjoy it.
That must be because you didn't read them all
Oh, heck. It's on the list I just posted. Go look there.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Let me say this
HILLARY IS NOT THE CANDIDATE.*
Despite my sig, I seem to understand this, whereas you don't. Hillary wasn't the one whipping votes for this, she isn't the party's de facto leader, so why should we be criticizing her, when this is Obama's baby(And she has been roundly criticized for it, though it's obvious by pushing HOLC, she wanted something better). Clinton has done exactly what the OFB wanted her to do which is sit down and STFU, yet twice in as many days, somebody has come around Corrente, and tried to divert criticism of Obama, by saying "But Hillary Did It Too!"
IMO, it seems to me like you shystee, are the one trying to refight the primary, bringing Clinton into a conversation about Obama, and what he'll do as president. What the fuck-all does Clinton have to do with a possible Obama administration?
*Note to OFB: You fucking beat Clinton, try fighting against McCain(instead of Palin, it'll work better for you).
i can haz hillary nao?
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
Gee, I'm reading Ian Welsh right now...
... so I can learn to adjust my tone so it doesn't raise concerns, and I'm trying to pick out the parts that aren't snarky. This part?
Or this part?
Or this part?
Or this part?
Or this part?
Or this part?
Or maybe these are the parts that aren't grieving. Hard to tell.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Actually, we did have a victory
A coherent policy alernative to the bailout was proposed (suported by Nouriel Roubini, among others) and our party leader actually stated that it should be studied.
That's more traction than we got on FISA, right? So I guess "spite" must be good for something, and we should repeat our success...
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Also, the first half of his convention speech was kinda partisan
Until he walked that back at the end.
I'm pretty sure it was because he thought maybe at the Democratic Convention it might be worth trying out acting like a Democrat. Other than that....
And some might say that the choice of speakers...
... at the convention was motivated by "grief" and "spite."
So far as I can tell, it's the only thing that works to influence Obama at all -- since that's three examples (1) HOLC, (2) Convention speeches, (3) Convention speakers. So, more like this please. Ha ha, only serious.
OK, seriously: Counter-examples?
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
At least he said the word "Democrat", at least once.
Which is a DAMN sight more than he did during the first debate.
"You'd better get this straight. Wise up before it's too late." -- Sister Sledge
Ain' no mo' Motown Review
And the Beatles have broken up too
JFK has been shot
We miss him a lot
He always knew what to do
-- Philly Cream
Actually no
On FISA, we were promised a filibuster, and got capitulation.
I take "should" as way down the implementation scale from "promise".
i can haz hillary nao?
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
I'll be back
after I read and make specific line-by-line objections to every single post Lambert and Vastleft have written in the past 6 months. Or maybe not.
I really didn't want to bring back the pie-fight. Sorry about that. I really wasn't sure if Hillary had voted for it or not until VL mentioned it in his comment.
The subject of blogger influence is one of endless speculation (and fascination). If you can trace a chain of causality between your snarky posts about Obama and the fact that he mentioned a proposal in a speech, then by all means, carry on.
May I suggest some light copy editing then?
How about changing this:
to this:
'kay?
UPDATE I forgot to deal with the "six months" straw man -- the list is of the 100 or so posts I've done over the course of the crisis only. My listing of posts for the last six months would be considerably longer. Just saying. Hey, and what kind of a blogosphere is it that could react to "a rainbow called Obama" with anything other than derision? He's a politician, for pity's sake! [Updated with various tweaks]
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Trying to get these to jibe
"I really didn’t want to bring back the pie-fight. "
and
"motivated by hurt feelings over the primary as opposed to genuine policy differences"
Not An Accident
But this has to be over the "pie fight", VL. That framing makes it easier to forgive the fact that the Democratic Party, led in large part by its nominee, just joined with the Bush Administration to fuck over the American people. But, hey, I'm probably not genuinely pissed about that, all those emails to my Congressman are really just about some "pie fight."* So no problems with Obama or the party. No sirreee. See how that works?
I think many of us have made it pretty clear that we oppose this bailout on policy grounds that have nothing to do with the primary process and everything to do with the fact that it sucks. But to address that, you'd have to defend Obama's actions on the bailout or explain why this wasn't a giant, bi-partisan FUCK YOU to the American people and it's so much easier to just call us all bitter.
See
http://www.correntewire.com/the_reckonin...
http://www.correntewire.com/let_me_expla...
http://www.correntewire.com/pelosi_if_yo...
http://www.correntewire.com/krugman_both...
http://www.correntewire.com/finance_comm...
for my blog posts on why the bailout sucks. I failed to mention Obama in a lot of them and I don't think I mentioned the Democratic nominating process in any of them, but that doesn't mean that's not what those posts are really about.
* The primary is over, Obama won, which makes him the head of the Democratic Party and so when the leadership of the Democratic Party fucks me over, as they did this week with Obama helping lead the way, I'm going to criticize Obama. And I'm going to criticize him more than I do other members of Congress because other members are not the leader of the Democratic Party and do not have the same power to stop this as he did. It's the same reason I criticize Pelosi and Reid and Dodd and Franks. I didn't realize the fact that I may have criticized Obama in the past or that I didn't vote for him in the priamry somehow makes these new criticisms out of bounds. I guess I'll stop criticizing McCain and Bush since I apparently am wasting my breath, what with my never having supported them and my constant criticisms of them. Clearly, I only oppose them because of my hard feelings over the partisan pie fights.
This is interesting
(although I changed the channel). Gwen Ifill is being interviewed on OPRAH! and discussing last night's debate and her questions.
Jibes and the Jibing Jibers
translation of first quote:
"I don't want to argue about whether Hillary is better than Obama".
translation of second quote:
"it sounds to me like you are still reacting to the primary as opposed to dealing with the here and now policy issues".
"differences" meaning between you and Obama, not between Obama and Hillary.
BTW: I do read Corrente multiple times a day.
We've disagreed before, but I've never seen you be disingenuous
The obvious implication of "hurt feelings over the primary" is that I'm still "grieving" (a word you cited later) about the intramural part of the campaign, i.e., in your parlance "the pie fight."
Otherwise, what is the point of delineating my beefs with Obama into before and after the primaries ended?
The simple fact is that you're still grieving about the fact that some Correntians (two, in particular) have taken a dim view of and snarky tone regarding the Democratic nominee, his surrogates, and some of his supporters -- as you were in your hit-and-run thread a month ago, where you started such a fire but didn't stick around to respond to rebuttals.
I don't begrudge your right to eat fight-pie, but just don't expect to have your above-the-fray innocence, too.
Wrong! He can be influenced
His Best Friends always have his ear.* And you all thought he was unreachable. Shame on you. Now be good little Dems, shut up, and send him your money (he's running low). Then, of course, give him your vote. Or almost as good, don't vote at all. Hope! Change! Obanka!
*Read part two also, then weep for your republic. For the Obama Nation will verily live up to its homophone - abomination.
this bailout ensures we won't benefit from an Obama or
McCain Administration--so who will?
the same ones who benefited from Dubya?
Snark Snipe Hunt
Lb, there is nothing wrong with snark per se. It'a powerful rhetorical weapon and you are a master of it's use. I just don't like what you've been using it for.
The Ian Welsh stuff you quote is snarky, but the snark is aimed squarely at the policy and it reads as coming from concerns about the effect of the policy.
As opposed to stuff that is aimed at Obama as a person and reads as coming from a place of personal grievance.
In the words of Jon Stewart, "I won't be your monkey" so I'm not going snark hunting even for 100 posts. But I will play one round of chapter and verse:
This is from your post "Thanks Obama" the other day after a long quote by Ian Welsh.
Heh, Obama is a classic Chicago machine politician: corrupt.
(Not clear on how Obama's machine is going to get a chunk of the bailout money, but I'll move on.)
Heh, Obama has no scruples.
Heh, extra bonus snark! Obama has no hesitation about being unscruplous.
Heh. All the bloggers who support Obama are cult members. They like to write about how he's so cool but he actually totally suxxxxxx!
Waah! Commenters at other blogs said mean nasty things to me. So I will call their blogs special names I have invented when referring to them. Heh.
Heh. The people that run the mean nasty OFB blogs have no original thoughts, they get their talking points straight from the Obama campaign.
Yeah, I hate all those who refer to themselves as Progressives too, because it's a word I associate with the OFB who said mean nasty things to me on the internets.
Lessons learned during the primary, shy
If you consider pervasive misogny as a "saying mean nasty things ... on the internets" -- or if you want to trivialize misogny in that way... Well, it brings to mind the question I keep asking, and never getting an answer for:
(You really don't need link on that, right?)
Which leads to the actually important unanswered question on this thread:
Should be easy to answer, yes?
The snark (carefully honed, and apparently, as designed, painful; good) comes from lessons that I learned very well through careful study of, and experience with, the Obama campaign, both online and off -- links, if you like. The snark is no less designed and full of intent -- and, when the cartoony-y snark nature is stripped, as supported by evidence and reasoning -- than the snark I developed under the Bush adminstration.
So, if holding Obama accountable for past actions, and reading the present through the lens of experience be "snark" and "grieving," well, let's make the most of it, say I. He'll win -- so I'm just ahead of everybody in holding his feet to the fire now.
Now, I wish calling this bullshit weren't my job right now. In fact, the discourse is so toxic that I'd like to get away from it entirely. That's what building a new platform is about. But until I can escape from Village discourse altogether, this is my job.
UPDATE Tweaks...
UPDATE Almost forgot: The person who invented the "nasty name" Whoever Kidnapped Josh Marshall (WKJM) was not me, but the great Bob Somerby -- based on the decline in quality that took place at that site. You gotta know the territory...
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Isn't the original quote that sparked this thread
about "Obama as a person"?
Or, rather as an ethereal being?
If you're truly interested in getting "the Obama team’s attention and steer[ing] them towards decisions that benefit all of us," doesn't this culture of magical thinking -- he's a walking, talking rainbow, a man with "magic water" -- about him concern you?
If he's treated as a virtual messiah, and in some circles he plainly is treated that way, does that not set him up for a hubristic resistance to criticism (along with creating an atmosphere where one is shunned by presumed or one-time allies for challenging his innate goodness)?
Jeebus
I'd never actually studied that site before, and I'd always thought it was a parody site. I didn't realize it was a "for the record," documentation site.
At least the Christianists have a great work of literature they can quote chapter and verse from. This stuff is just ... slop. It's worthy of The Museum of Bad Art.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
there appears to be a
companion site
Ponies, Rainbows & Godsent Obamacorns
Obama Girl best watch her back. She's got some competition from Congressman Cummings. She's not the only one with a crush on Obama.
How fitting that Cummings sees Obama as a rainbow, because rainbows are also "Bridges to Nowhere", and not only that, they don't begin anywhere, either. Oh , man. Could he have picked a better comparison?
Folks, you can't make this stuff up; you can try, but you'll fail.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
Shystee is pissed
that Cummings made that quote, and more pissed that VL found it, put it in a pretty frame and mounted it on the wall next to the velvet unicorn painting.
Totally awesome vid too!
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Around these parts we call cucumber slices circle bites
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I'm not such a bad guy once you get to know me.