The anatomy of a left wing smear campaign
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If there is one thing I learned this election cycle, its that the right doesn't have a monopoly and lies and smear tactics. How does the left do it? Well, they take a person (preferably a female politician) and connect them to some religious fundamentalists or people who have ties to religious fundamentalists. Its especially nice if they are scary religious fundamentalists, "dominionists" even. Next, write pages and pages of about how scary "dominionists" are. Its an extra bonus if you can find quotes by these scary "dominionists" that have them praising said female politician. These people can have two, three or four degrees of separation from the female politician, it doesn't matter. Extra special bonus if you can use scary terms like "cell". If you think I'm talking about Sarah Palin, you're wrong. I'm talking about Hillary Clinton.
The strategy is clear. Heck, you can even make up stuff about the legislative positions, as some have about Hillary:
Furthermore, the [scary religious fundamentalist] Family takes credit for some of [Hillary] Clinton's rightward legislative tendencies, including her support for a law guaranteeing "religious freedom" in the workplace, such as for pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions and police officers who refuse to guard abortion clinics.
Of course, its no matter that Hillary and Patty Murray are pretty much the only Congressfolk trying to prevent the Bush Administration from doing some of this stuff.
I bring this up because I had a conversation with friends this week about Palin and many of the easily debunked lies about her. They asked why I was defending her. Its not defending her that I'm interested in, its the BS that needs to stop. BS is BS, even in the service of "good". And if everyone is throwing BS around, the only information we have available is BS and we all lose. Its the same principle as why I don't think the Dems accepting a stolen Obama election is good. Once we allow fundamentally corrupt processes to become party invariant, we are all going to suffer in the long term, probably more so than having to deal with four years of McCain.
If hysteria weren't all the rage these days, the case against McCain/Palin can be made very concisely:
John McCain and Sarah Palin are self described conservatives. Conservativism has failed--miserably!--and is the biggest reason we are in the messes we are in. John McCain and Sarah Palin aren't evil or scary, but a vote for them is a vote for a political philosophy that has proven over and over again to be a failure.
Period. End of story. Instead we get left wing smear campaigns.
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Comments
I'm just tired of it...
The liberals are supposed to be good and kind - or something.
I think something got confused. When we wanted more fight in our liberals, we meant stand up for our causes, not tear down opponents (regardless of party) with smear campaigns.
this is what happens when
they don't run on issues -- or on the traditional party platforms and strengths.
Stolen elections
IIRC, the 1960 presidential outcome was well received in progressive circles and no one lost any sleep over the ethics involved. The sole response on the Left was a sigh of relief that our crooks outsmarted their crooks. I only wish we had been organized enough to fuck over Nixon again in '68. And '72. And Reagan both times and the Bushs all three times. In fact, if the Democratic Party had stolen every single election from 1968 onward this would be a far better world in which to live.
I've had a belly full of nice guy candidates finishing second. All you little lambs should maybe go find a nice shady spot and munch clover for a while, while the wolves duke it out; wouldn't want your delicate sensibilities getting upset. You can thank us for doing the dirty work later.
Pssssst... Hey, BIO --
You're supposed to do the dirty work on the _opposing_ team, yeah.
So can you, uh, work for Republicans next time? As liberals, we'd really appreciate it, thanks...
Boring, trite and predictable
You and your little gang of whiny-butts have been trying to disinvite quite a few people here ever since you showed up. Real intimidating, you are.
[pause to stop laughing]
I've been in the trenches on the side of Progressive causes since before you were a wet spot. I'm not going anywhere else, and if you don't like it - go pound sand.
uh oh
was that a "sheeple" reference above ;)
I would never
what with all this PC bullshit, we are running out of usable epithets and that is going to become a real crisis very soon. I sense the need for a bailout; if everyone would please just herd yourselves in this direction....
Can you please all call yourselves something else?
The term Democratic Party is already taken. You can call yourselves Progressive or Wolf Party or any other name that pleases you, but last time I checked stolen elections were not part of Democratic principles.
Perhaps you have recently arrived from an alternate universe
When it comes to political and electoral theft, the Democratic Party has much to be proud of; 1968 still gives me goosebumps, and Truman’s grabbing the VP slot is something I will always deeply admire. Sadly, the Prig Wing of the modern Democratic Party has cramped what was a sophisticated political operation with a sense of humor and swaggering style and turned it into an oh-so-polite tea-and-crumpets soirée with lace doilies all around. Poor Dick Tuck; he must be so ashamed.
I wish I did
I am fully familiar with 1968 election, and with lovely Chicago machine stealing the election for JFK,and so on. Lest we forget there was that tiny slavery issue as well. But in recent years Democratic Party supposedly embraced the whole fair elections idea.
If we want to scream about horrible Republicans playing unfair and fixing elections and suppressing voter turnout (see 2000 and 2004 Elections), we have to quit doing it ourselves.
Keyword: "supposedly"
Democratic Party nominating processes were revised after the 1968 debacle to make absolutely certain that the Party heirarchy retains control of the process regardless of the election and caucus outcomes. It was the exact opposite of creating a free and open process. In the general elections, The Democratic Party was quite pleased when they were stealing and winning; only when the Republicans got better at it did the subject become an issue to campaign on.
We have a terrible general election process; if the USA were a third-world nation (soon, perhaps) the UN would send in monitors and Jimmy Carter to sort things out. Both sides have their issues, and both will have to agree before real reform can occur. Meanwhile, it is a circular pickpocket routine and the first one to be perfectly honest will come up short. Let the Dems steal two in a row and we'll call it even.
That reminds me...
From BSG, Zarek and Roslin as they're being hauled off in handcuffs by their new robotic overlords:
Tom Zarek: Laura... That election last year. You tried to steal it, didn't you?
Laura Roslin: Yes, Tom. I did.
Tom Zarek: (laughs) Ah... I wish you'd gone through with it.
Laura Roslin: So do I.
Of course if Roslin had read the mood of her people a little better and the media had done its job a little better, she wouldn't have had to steal it at all.
belt and suspenders, BDBlue
belt and suspenders
Who needs democracy
When we can have wise folks like you, who have been around for such a long time and are more wise and deeply rooted in progressivism, to chose our leaders for us and then tell us why we should be happy we have those leaders.
Welcome to the world of progressivism. Yeehaw.
Um...
I’ve had a belly full of nice guy candidates finishing second.
There aren't any nice guys.
But competent, experienced, thoughtful ones would be nice.
Be careful what you wish for.
LET'S ALL BE MONSTORS!!!
That's the new liberal motto!
Let's make jokes about incest! let's hope that "my black bro thug friends gang rape Sarah Palin". "jews that support McCain sould be gassed!"
Jesus h. christ. It's ok to become monstrous so you can win and then do good?
Ends justify the means. Where does it stop?!!!!
I want nothing to do with you and your nasty group. I will never thank you for one goddamn thing. You're becoming that which you despise and you can't even see it.
You make me ashamed of my party.
LET'S ALL LEARN TO USE SPELLCHECK!
and how to use our indoor voice.
Oh, and for Christmas the gift of irony all around, so those who make up character smears about others in the course of making an argument against the use of smears in political campaigns can see themselves...ah, hell, never mind on that one, never gonna happen.
All I ever ask for are small improvements, and still....
old saying
You can lead a sheeple to slaughter but you can't make it think..
Can't teach old sheeple a new trick.
Of course I'm just being a troll ;)
If you're not scared of the Dominionists...
... then you need to be, is my attitude. And I don't think it's "monstrous" to look into Palin's religious affiliations -- though I do think it was monstrous to go after a 17 year old girl.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
You miss the point entirely, Lambert
Its not that dominionism is scary or not*, its using bogus ties to dominionists to paint Hillary or Palin as on the same level. And the whole point of the post was that what I see are pages and pages of scary dominionist fear mongering which may or may not be good research after having a few of the bogus ties to the pols in question at the beginning. If the ties are bogus, the scary dominionist stuff belongs on a post separate from the candidate. Apparently, democracy and veracity have little place in PB2.0 if we are sufficiently scared of something or someone. So it goes.
* Since its clear that you haven't read some of my stuff from years ago, which I've linked to in the past, I have less motivation to provide the linky goodness everyone requests.
Yawn
Apparently inner motivation to do the right thing isn't enough for you? And somehow my failure to live up to your expectations is the source of the problem?
Incidentally, dog emperor's got some research to tear apart today. If you want to do the work.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
Double yawn
(That was sarcasm).
That I read essentially everything you write should be evidence that I take everything you say seriously as opposed to most other people online.
I made a comment on one of the previous scary dominionist posts. about the absurdity of the Deborah reference that you roundly dismissed only to make a similar comment on the next post. I also commented *multiple* times on my discussions of right-wing christian fundametalists *with a link to a 2006 post* to show I don't have any illusions about them. Apparently that fell on deaf ears, each time.
I agree with everything
gqmartinez has said in this thread.
I'm perfectly willing to be convinced that Palin is actively working with all these scary Dominionists, but the phrase "has been linked to" repeated over and over just doesn't do it for me.
gq is also right, however, that McCain/Palin are plenty scary enough even without the Dominionist stuff.
Wile E. Coyote (D) discovering there's nothing under him.
Yup. One too many of those, and all I can think is, "Gee, this isn't going to amount to much, is it?". I luvs me some dirty and unfair politics, and I don't mind reducing deeply complicated and nuanced problems to screaming-match soundbites, but I'm not running off the cliff in pursuit of the Republican Roadrunner with nothing under me.
But the Wright screeds
that Mr. Obama listened to for 20 years etc. etc. etc. are cool, right?
Probably explains why we're doing so well.
And yet, you can't even pick up on the idea that - whatever your personal impression of one conversation - the Republicans were setting up another marketing campaign for their favorite new law this weekend.
While your preferred candidate took ideas fresh out of W's 2001 crib sheet.
Again, I implore - please find some Republicans to "help".
If a Progressive whines about "PC" in the forest ....
Does a liberal shit in the woods?
If you want to be seen as something besides adolescent, I heartily recommend getting off this "PC" hobby horse you insist on riding. (I'd probably ix-nay the spellcheck references, too...)
It's about as fresh as your preferred candidate's ideas.
Gosh you are just full of suggestions for me
Such a fertile mind, so full of…ah, never mind.
Happily, I can ignore dozens as easily as one.
how about
I'm voting that you quit telling BIO how to act, think, etc. He's earned a place at the big table, but I really haven't seen anything noteworthy from your "insights".
Miss Liberal Manners sez "PC" should always be in sneer quotes.
"PC", in anything except sneer quotes, or as part of a meta-discussion, or deep in a super-ironic rabbit hole, reflects badly on its user. And this has been true for years now.
It's hard to take seriously any person who uses it with genuine disdain or dismissiveness, as BIO frequently does.
I'm a PC
(steve balmer reference)
It’s hard to take seriously any person who always has to have the last word as if winning on the internet is "winning".
And the unintended irony of the "I'm a PC" ads? Anyone? Bueller?
Are we back to argument from the breadth of experience and incredible achievements in the progresso-sphere that Certain People have been making since before I was born?
Because from where I sit, I've got a choice between
far right, and fag-bashing, pro-life, extra crispy Jesus center-right this year.
Perhaps it's time for Certain People to pursue work in the private sector. I hear Wall Street's hiring people to preside over their demise...
cool
I look like a BIO sockpuppet ^^^^ I'm going to frame this thread. :)
Funny old world
isn't it?
Thanks intranets. A good laugh is much needed.
Intimidate? You mean behave like you?
I would never want to behave like you.
And people that believe in liberal values don't behave like you.
You are just enjoying being a bully. You've taken moral cover
under the big O in they sky. Reminds me of the religious right
and the way they justify their hatred.
What does this mean?
Who's taking refuge under the big O in the sky?
A little detail on your concerns, please.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
It's from upthread
They have yet to figure out how to reply to a relevant comment (to keep it threaded), or failing that use a blockquote.
Sorry, I've already lost interest
Perhaps another thread has matters of substance. Any big O is a good O, far as I'm concerned.
1993 called.
It wants its effective rhetorical devices back.
ROTFLMAO!
Let's Be Clear
There are always one or two people at the very middle of everyone of these shit-storms, a pair of bitter, vengeful, spiteful shits who for whatever they offer the board easily undo it with their bitter, vengeful, spiteful personalities. This board is absolutely stunted by their presents, and they are trolls in every since of the word.
It's high time, Lambert, that you again show why this board was a voice of reason and stop condoning this absurdly anti-social behaviour displayed by the few. You can't complain about online bullying and gangsterism, and then side with it on your board lest you want to be considered a hypocrite. These folks are obviously miserable, here, and are hellbent on making it miserable for everyone else. If that ain't the definition of trolling, I don't know what in the hell is. It's time to put them out of their misery, that is unless you want this madness to reign and continue to push valuable folks (like FrenchDoc), away.
Hell, yeah; it's time for a GD change, already. Sheesh. Can I get an amen?
jesus called
he said smote those trolls.
(sorry, LB, i see a line and have to cross it)
Just for the record when there is real work to be done and not pissing and moaning (not directed at the original poster), BIO and me is good at heavy lifting, can't say the same for the lets-all-hug-it-out crowd. Don't mistake trying to impress people with whatever delusions you have.
LB has no problem telling people not to piss in the pool, I'm guessing he doesn't want to play kindergarten cop. For the record, I've always noticed in forums on the interbutts that the people who are the biggest bullies and mafiosos are those who want to shape things into their vision.
You invest the time, and you be the cop
Send me a list with links. I just spent eight hours yesterday posting on the bailout, when not painting the house, and I don't have a lot more time for others to allocate.
The best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them -- a time-honored practice that many here would do well to follow, since trolls -- and mind-gamers thrive on attention.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
Conservativism has failed—miserably!
—and is the biggest reason we are in the messes we are in.
bingo.