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Should Progressives Vote Obama in a Swing State?

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HONKALA: You're probably correct. I wasn't aware of that. But people like Rosa Clemente and Shamako Noble, Medea Benjamin, these are all folks—Sister Margaret McKenna, all of these folks have been out there helping to build this movement, helping to build this struggle in this country.

We, too, need to come to a point where we understand that there has to be a beginning. And we think that the beginning is now and that we've got to cut with the abusive party of the Democrats that once they throw us down the stairs once, twice, three times, it's okay for us to leave our abusers.

JAY: So, Jeff, what do you make of this argument, which I think you could extend a bit to say that the Democrats simply don't really ever have to worry about, quote-unquote, pressure from the left, because the left always thinks the right is the more—the Republicans are the more dangerous option, and when President Obama does win—and we saw that in the last four years—you know, he couldn't care less that the health care debate, the single-payer person wasn't even invited to the table, that if you don't send this kind of message, that actually you could lose—there's no such thing as pressuring the Democratic Party from the left?

COHEN: Paul, remember, the Democrats did lose in 2000, or they had the election stolen from them, and it didn't exactly make the Democratic Party more left. I would argue they were more abject corporatist and militarist in 2001, 2002, and 2003.

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tom allen's picture
Submitted by tom allen on

When Democrats win, they see it as justification for having moved to the right. When Democrats lose, they figure they haven't moved far enough to the right.

DCblogger's picture
Submitted by DCblogger on

it indicates that there has been a real groundswell for emergent party candidates and the powers that be fear it.

Submitted by chadwick newsome on any state says, Heckuva job, O. Let's have four more years just like the first four.

Me, I can't say that. So I will vote for Jill Stein.

coyotecreek's picture
Submitted by coyotecreek on

....under every Ellsberg inspired article:

"Exactly how evil is too evil before they no longer deserve our votes?"

"I'm just curious exactly how bad does a democratic presidential candidate have to get before we should no longer vote for him?

Is it OK to stop voting for him when he puts a commission together that is skewed far enough to the right that its guaranteed to recommend cuts to social programs that Americans depend on for their very survival?

Is it OK to stop voting for him when he refuses to jail any of the banksters that caused a world wide near depression by their criminal acts?

Is it OK to stop voting for him because he has prosecuted more whistleblowers under the Espionage act than all other presidents combined when he promised to have a transparent presidency?

Is it OK to stop voting for him when he flies drones over multiple countries killing innocent people?

Is it OK to stop voting for him when he says he has the right to kill you or anyone you love and/or detain you or them indefinitely without a trial? Is it OK to stop voting for him when he kills a US citizen and his son without due process?

He has done all of the above, and yet we are told we should still hold our noses and vote for him. And read that last paragraph again. He has already killed Americans without due process and wants to be able to do it to more of us. Again exactly how bad does a democratic president have to get before we get the OK from our respected left wing leaders to not vote for him?

The concern that Romney would most likely get to appoint more than one Supreme Court Justice is a legitimate one, but remember all nominees must be accepted by the Senate. All the right wing hacks that are currently sitting there now are there because of the approval of the Democrats that were in power at the time of their appointments. We have Citizens United because of the lack of backbone and/or gleeful approval of Democratic Senators who voted for the right wing nut jobs that now sit on the highest court in the land.

Remember if Romney puts any right wing wackos on the SCOTUS it will have to be done with the approval of some democrats. So exactly how are they the lesser of two evils?

If we don't push back on the Democrats why should they ever stop their incessant march to the far right?

Exactly how evil is too evil before they no longer deserve our votes?"

This is not mine - I found it under the Huff Po article by Ellsberg but though it was so well done, I couldn't do better!

Submitted by MontanaMaven on

at Firedoglake last Friday.
"The reason to vote and campaign for a good candidate is that we need to build an independent movement that’s honest, that doesn’t self-censor, and that supports candidates or elected officials who come to us — rather than us running to them."

I’m quite taken with mr. Swanson’s reasoning. Tis quite original and well argued. Notice the use of the word “honest”. That’s a tell. Our tom Paine .

His last paragraph is beautiful. It is filled with the personal and the concern for your brothers and sisters. So it then blends into the idea of fraternity (and sorority) which the union leadership has abandoned. I’m reading “Solidarity for Sale”. It clearly shows the difference between American unions and European ones. Yes, if only we had all that union money to form a workers mutual aid group or a working party as David Swanson suggests instead of supporting Dino’s, like abused spouses.

If not now, when?
Real lefties won't enter the Roach Motel.

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

Effective Evil." Here's the link.

I'm hoping for complete chaos (split electoral college and popular vote, more divided Congress, etc.)

The Uniparty's agenda in no way advances an agenda that is even remotely beneficial to "regular folk."

Ergo, the most positive outcome that we can hope for--gridlock. Then at least, they won't be able to inflict any more damage upon the American populace.

[I apologize for being the skunk at the garden party. :-)]

Submitted by Hugh on

Again if Obama wanted my vote, he would have fought for what I thought, as a progressive, was important. He didn't. So he doesn't want my vote, which is fine by me because he isn't getting it.