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Seeking Info Re Health Safety Issues In Tokyo and Japan

Submitted by libbyliberal on Sun, 03/13/2011 - 5:19am
Tags: 
japan
Tokyo
Tsunami
Nuclear Reactor

I have a niece who is going to school in Tokyo for this year but is home in the states on a semester break for a few weeks. She was going to go back to Japan early next week, though has more weeks before school resumes. Should she postpone going back until more is known? What exactly is known right now re the reactor danger? I intend to do some serious googling, and am ashamed I have not been more on top of this story and want to be since it strikes so close to home.

Anybody know some reliable info or the source of some reliable info?

Thanks for any consideration.

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Submitted by JuliaWilliams on

is, at present, coming from "official" "government" and "plant operator" sources, making NONE of it trustworthy. For example, while the Japanese gov, and many "informed sources" were being quoted around the clock on the MSM as saying "no problem here, nothing to see", in the meantime the core rods were already being exposed, and they were releasing huge amounts of radioactive steam to attempt to prevent what eventually happened. Remember, all of the sources are heavily invested in obfuscating the truth, not to mention the MSM (remember who GE owns?), and our own corporatist politicians. If it were MY family, I'd keep her home.

Submitted by JuliaWilliams on

I think this diary is just heartbreaking: (warning, this is from the GOS)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/12...
plus there are some other ones on that site also with good info. But the prevailing wisdom, and from people who are "in the know" and much more educated than I about nuclear plants and how they run, is that WE DON'T KNOW, and can't trust what we're being told, so....

Submitted by libbyliberal on

"Our bodies need iodine, though, especially our thyroid glands. Our bodies can absorb iodine into our bloodstream from both our digestive tracts and our lungs. Unfortunately, though, our bodies can't tell the difference between the "safe" iodine-127 and the "dangerous" iodine-131; it sees them all as "iodine" and absorbs them all.

So, what happens is that this radioactive iodine is concentrated in the thyroid, where it suddenly decays to produce high-energy gamma rays that can cause DNA mutations . . . which later in life can lead to thyroid cancer. They can also lead to hyperthyroidism and other problems.

The one saving grace, as it were, though, is that since iodine-131 decays so quickly, it doesn't stay in the body all that long. Plus, the thyroid gland is relatively small, and can only hold so much iodine at any given moment (on the order of 10 milligrams). So, if you can keep the iodine-131 from accumulating in the thyroid over the exposure period, which is normally just a few days, you can minimize the risk.

So, that's where the potassium iodide tablets come in. They contain about 100 milligrams of safe iodine-127, which effectively "floods" the body with safe iodine, and minimizes the likelihood that the dangerous iodine-131 will be taken up by the thyroid before it can be excreted by the body. The risk of getting cancer from exposure to iodine-131 is not even close to 100%, but, obviously, the lower the better.

Sadly, that prophylaxis was not administered to those exposed to radiation from the Chernobyl disaster, but Japan is taking steps to make sure its citizens get it."

* * *

Submitted by libbyliberal on

I keep thinking of the 9/11 ground zero minimization of air quality. I keep thinking of the BP minimization still going on.

I could fill this comment block with why trusting the media or government is a crapshoot.

I will gird myself and read your links. Thank you.

Submitted by Lex on

I would think that your niece's return might be complicated by other factors beyond possible radiation exposure.

I am not going to say that there is nothing to worry about, but with all the destruction i do find it odd that US media is so constantly trumpeting the possibility of nuclear devastation. I disagree that the "official" pronouncements are saying the equivalent of "nothing to see here." In fact, it seems like the Japanese government is being very proactive and operating on the safe side.

I'm also not going to say that nuclear power is "safe"...as if there is such a thing, but i'm certainly not going to accept the point of view of avowedly anti-nuclear writers (DKos diaries) as truth. Just as i'm not going to unquestioningly accept pro-nuclear think tankers when they tell me it's all fine.

But let's get back to the sensationalism and fear mongering. Thankfully journalists (most of whom probably don't understand the science behind what they're reporting on) have stopped using the word "Chernobyl" like they were yesterday. I do wonder why i haven't seen dreadful headlines about the massive CNG fires raging and/or all the heavy industry broken apart and sloshed around the Japanese coast?

In any case, i'm in regular contact with a blogger who has the technical knowledge from her former day job to actually analyze this kind of information. She wishes that there was more information from the Japanese, but points out that most of the writing on the issue is woefully uniformed and much of it is just crap.

She recommends the two links below and the third is her blog with updates, links, etc.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12...

http://phronesisaical.blogspot.com/2011/...

We could look at all this from the flip side of impending disaster porn. Those nuclear plants took a 7.9 earthquake, more than a day of aftershocks that if they happened in CA would be called tragedies all of their own, and a tsunami and things are still pretty well under control. (And if it hadn't been for the tsunami that knocked the back up diesel generators for cooling off line things would be even better.)

Submitted by Lex on

if i my comment sounded pissed off and snarky.*

This will be the last i plan on interacting with the internet for a day or two because i can't take the fear mongering based on irrational emotion provocation anymore. Especially in light of how deep and broad this tragedy is. Sendai would be the 10th largest city in the US by population. It's pretty much gone. The northern portion of Japan (where it's still very much winter) is basically cut off from the rest of the country without power, heat, etc. That's a significant agricultural region and this season...at least...just won't happen.

For god's sake, the Earth's axis was shifted and Japan sunk by an amount measurable with a household ruler.

But i'm overwhelmed by the complete focus on this one, rather small portion of the event and it's being portrayed without even a hint of fact checking, knowledge or common decency. I can't take it anymore....

*Granted, pissed off and snarky constitute my natural state of existence.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

Different technology from Chernobyl, so a "meltdown" doesn't have the same consequences (as their expert points out).

Can't link, too lazy, but my recollection of my surfing on this today is that (1) at TMI the issue was a "hydrogen bubble," but we don't know if that's happening here, and that (2) the Japanese government has not always been truthful about radiation release in the past.

Still, I agree with Lex on the laziness of the coverage.

Submitted by libbyliberal on

info-sensationalism ... and a.d.d. attention spans.

someone wrote about how Charlie Sheen's meltdown has more thorough attention than Japan's potential one.

Submitted by libbyliberal on

"When a reactor core is shut down, its energy output drops not to zero, but about 6% of its normal output, Forsberg told me. The reactions grind to a halt over the next few days, as the falling Jenga towers run out of other towers they can actually hit. In the meantime, atoms keep breaking apart, releasing both heat and fast-moving particles that can penetrate human skin and damage our cells. Because of this, every nuclear reactor has ways of getting rid of the heat, and blocking those fast-moving radioactive particles.

When the reactor at Fukushima shut down, it should have been kept cool by water pumped through the core. But, because the tsunami damaged the diesel-powered generators that pumped the water, the core kept heating up. If that sounds like a design flaw, you're right. The Fukushima reactors were built in the early 1970s. In modern nuclear reactor designs, pumps aren't necessary to move water through the core in an emergency shut down. Instead, the water moves via gravity.

But, in this case, no pumps meant no water movement. So the core got hotter, which boiled off some of the water. The boiling caused pressure in the core to increase. To protect the core, and prevent a bigger problem, authorities had to vent some of that steam into the atmosphere, which means venting some of the radioactive particles along with them."

votermom's picture
Submitted by votermom on

Should she postpone going back until more is known?

My guess would be yes, even without the nuclear plant instability. There is still a possibility of a big aftershock. If the school is IN Tokyo I would think they probably don't even know now if they will resume classes on schedule given the status of the infrastructure. Buildings that are still ok now may no longer be structurally sound if they do get a ~7 aftershock.

If she already has a ticket back, she should contact the airline to find out what the change/cancel options are.

votermom's picture
Submitted by votermom on

thanks for sharing. I was wondering.

Jessica Yogini's picture
Submitted by Jessica Yogini on

The airline should be willing to let you push the date of the flight back without any fees, so I would try to push the bigger decision back a couple of weeks to see how recovery goes.

The info on the nuclear plants is just not adequate, but you would think it would settle out one way or another fairly quickly. Tokyo Power is particularly prone to trying to hide information, but it is not as though you could have a cloud of radioactivity floating toward Tokyo without anyone noticing.

The more immediate practical issue in Tokyo, as long as it remains outside the actual damage zone, is that so much electrical generation capacity is off-line that they have announced the schedule for the rolling blackouts in Tokyo to start on Monday the 14th and have said that this will disrupt the railroads.

goldberry's picture
Submitted by goldberry on

And I'd let her go too. The nuclear reactor issue is less of a concern than the massive devastation. I doubt the Japanese need another teenager on their hands right now, no matter how good she is.
I'd tell your niece to ratchet down the fear factor. The truth about the radioactivity levels will become apparent to the international monitoring community very soon. At that point, you can check what the Japanese government is saying.
No matter what is happening over there, it is NOT Chernyobal. Not even close by a long shot squared.

lambert's picture
Submitted by lambert on

... in that I think the presumption is go, and not go, as long as she has the tools, communication and otherwise. Figure out what the minimum baseline of safety is and, if possible, think of this as an opportunity and not a problem.

After all, if half of what we all believe is true, the world is going to be like Japan after a tsunami more and more. And people, oddly enough, are often at their best in natural disasters (I'm thinking of the SF earthquake reaction, which when self-organized was wonderful, and only went to shit when the military moved in).

Note that if this was third world, I'd be worried about a "disaster relief" scenario, where the dynamics seem pretty odd (sorry....)), but Japan is definitely first world, resilient.... If the purpose of the trip is education, then it's hard to think of a better opportunity. Best case scenario is that she'll learn a ton and make friends for life.

Submitted by libbyliberal on

Nuclear radioactivity always terrified me growing up. I get faint when it is discussed. I never could make it through a showing of Silkwood.

Add this to the massive amorality and destruction of the social safety net, the common good, the end of "public trust." Looking at what volunteer work at Ground Zero post-9/11 did to some fellow New Yorkers. Unforgivable the lack of civil protection of American citizen heroes.

QUESTION AUTHORITY always the best rule of thumb imho.

Submitted by libbyliberal on

I do long work hours on the weekends so I have not had time to give each link and comment the thoughtfulness it deserves, but you all are a great resource!!!! I knew you would be.

Thanks and I hope to get back here to this thread when I get to the end of my work tunnel!!!! In the meantime I have passed it all on to my brother for their consideration!

Submitted by Elliott Lake on

..on exactly those kinds of questions, with background and explanations. Tepco and NISA do seem to have an uneven reputation for openness, but unless one of the cores actually melts with attendant explosion and releases, that part of this tragedy is probably not the biggest thing to worry about. And I think anything precluding her return will happen fairly soon--either they get the reactors cooled and stabilized, or they don't. For me---I'd not want to be jumping into chaos (volcano, search/recovery, rolling power blackouts, general upheaval) but that's not on the basis of safety. Other parts of me think it would be fascinating to see how this country goes about fixing itself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/201...

arclight (on twitter) This engineer is very good and to the point, has been doing tv interviews (haven't seen them, but am following him for his explanations) He's good to answer questions, too.

Justin McCurry, also on twitter Guardian reporter

If you read the reports from Tepco (pdfs of press releases on their site), they are very detailed with atmospheric release information.

Very good info here:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar...

Submitted by libbyliberal on

Hope all countries will learn from this!

There is also the call of her friends who are over there, too. The bonds of friendship and mutual experience of adventure and support.

But I hope she waits at least until the major dust settles. I pray it can.

Thanks again.

Turlock