If you have "no place to go," come here!

Q and A: Priceman

priceman's picture

I have Joslyn Stevens's permission to repost this interview.


This week I conducted an interview with a progressive populist I follow on twitter, Priceman, whose annoying habit of using facts and common sense with a dose of in-your-face realness to prove his points tends to piss off democrats over at the “progressive” DailyKos. I feel it’s necessary to showcase often ignored voices representative of the people who speak truth to power and will continue to do so on a weekly basis.

The democratic blog DailyKos claims to be a reform blog open to all views but as we both know opposing views aren’t welcome. Are they doing their readers a disservice by promoting and defending a corporate Democratic Party that doesn’t represent working-class Americans and hasn’t for a long time?

A. Hi, Joslyn. It’s nice to talk to you. I have a lot to say on this topic. Not only are they doing their readers a disservice, they are making a laughing stock of the so called progressive blogosphere as a whole. Wanting “more and better Democrats” does not mean a whole lot when those who administer and run that site, coddle so called Democrats that are openly hostile to the programs that shaped the party’s platform in the first place, from the New Deal and Great Society. That site’s administrators play favorites there and try to hide it; President Obama and his enablers are who take precedence over everything else on Daily Kos.

I base this on the very poor job their site moderators do at that site, and the lack of self awareness that comes from denying it, which happens every time anyone looks into it. There are a number of good diarists that write there, but they do not receive equal treatment; posters whose sole mission is to protect their hero in the White House, are allowed to break the site rules and troll any posts not favorable to the Obama administration. And if anyone retaliates against them, only then does the site’s administration get involved in order to put them in their place while pretending to just enforce site rules, which are arbitrary, selective, and not clearly defined at all except in secret.

Sure, they might ban an obvious sockpuppet whose sole mission is to attack Glenn Greenwald, but that is low hanging fruit and does not hide the obvious bias at that Democratic gatekeeper site. The business model there relies on pretending that every problem in our society must be the fault of the Republicans, instead of both parties colluding together for the continuing grand austerity bargain happening now with the first step: the sequester. The White House wrote the sequester and put out there, but to mention that is blasphemous at Daily Kos like most other critiques of the President when it comes down to it. This is specifically true during election season; posters are banned for harshly criticizing the President.

I witnessed this first hand, and even I was warned in 2012 for doing so; I merely uprated a factual comment that in some ways there is little difference between Mitt Romney and President Obama. The 2012 Obama campaign went after Bain for outsourcing jobs, closing plants, and devastating US communities. Yet, now that the election is over, President Obama has appointed Jeff Zients, a former executive of Gov. Mitt Romney’s Bain & Company investment firm, as head of the National Economic Council.

To add insult to injury, on civil liberties issues, the owner of the Daily Kos, Markos Moulitsas, was asked how he feels about what Snowden revealed with regard to the 4th amendment being trashed by this administration continuing and expanding the Bush administration’s NSA war on terror abuses, and he said he honestly didn’t care. He said that worrying about spying was a very white privileged thing to do. However, anyone who has done even a modicum amount of research, knows that New York — pretty much the whole country, but especially New York — has changed after 9/11; it is now outfitted with a massive surveillance arsenal to more efficiently conduct racist policies like stop and frisk which does affect black people suffering from real white privilege in the real world.

This is similar to the drug war President Obama is continuing, which is also racist, since most incarcerations for drug possession are disproportionately black even though white people use the same amount or much more in many cases. Some on Daily Kos will try to deny this by saying the drug war is mostly a state issue and that you should just go yell at your local mayor and city council, and leave Obama alone. That would be fine if the Obama administration did not deploy for-profit prison lobbyists in their Justice Department like U.S Marshall, Stacia Hylton. The Prison Industrial complex lobbies all states to have access to the prisoners arrested for drug possession in whatever state they set up. This is coddled and supported at the federal level.

Not to mention all the broken promises from Eric Holder and the President about not raiding medical marijuana dispensaries. None of this is mentioned on Daily Kos when it comes to issues about race, and it’s perpetuating real racism which involves institutions like this and always has. So, this is not something Markos — and those that like him who scoff at what Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden have revealed — can ignore while claiming to care about real white privilege, real racism, and what’s going on in the real world on the federal level and at the state level aided and abetted by the drug warriors in the Obama administration at the federal level.

No, once Markos wrote a book about “Crashing the Gate” with regard to the political blogosphere he was instrumental in creating, along with Howard Dean’s campaign, in filling the void that the bought oligopoly — the mainstream media that failed and is still failing the public — left. However, now that a Democrat is in the white house, sites like Daily Kos are gatekeepers. They are not interested in crashing any gates. This is how they run the site and ultimately this is their business model.

I wrote there for a time, but I would now warn others that Daily Kos is not the site where intellectual debate is allowed on anything substantial. Only about how bad the other bought political party is. That is, instead of Democrats, with few exceptions, and Republicans working together to subvert representative Democracy. Oh, how mighty the once promising site has fallen and will continue to fall now that we know what the site’s true purpose is; shilling for the status quo as long as it has a (D). This, we all now know and can see.

There’s no reason to read anything on that site. It’s no different than what’s on MSNBC.

In one of your DailyKos diaries you wrote, “The Obama/Bush national security state policies are mirroring a step to an authoritarian society”. To name a few control tactics, third-party candidates are shut out of debates to eliminate choice, money is drowning out public opinion, the NSA tracks everything we do, peaceful protests are infiltrated by cops, and drones have become commonplace during Obama’s administration and are soon to be normalized here at home thanks to Amazon. It would seem we already live in an authoritarian society. What’s really missing?

A. Ahh, very good points. I guess the only thing missing is the overt nature from what we, as a society, know of when it comes to authoritarian societies which I am referring to; your iron curtains, your fascist regimes, and what have you. It is true that in many ways we are already there. I am reminded of something historian and linguistic professor, Noam Chomsky, talks about a lot when it comes to media in the United States. That any dictator would admire the obedience of the mega media monopolies and oligopolies still, although hopefully that might change eventually, that control everything we see, hear, and now think.

He also makes a good point about how our media might even be worse than those regimes; people who lived in those societies knew their state run media was lying to them. We, however, assume that lies only come from certain sources on certain media outlets, when, really, corporations dictate instead of the state in that model which is a form of corporatism which is uncomfortably close to fascist Italian leader Mussollini’s definition of fascism; a merger between corporations and the state.

It may become more obvious when someone even worse than President Obama gets into the white house decides to utilize the NDAA he signed into law to lock many more Americans away, along with continuing the unprecedented war on whistle blowers that the President is conducting. When Americans realize they are only free to consume, as comedian Bill Hicks once pointed out, and these authoritarian practices — practices used by the FBI, DHS, and PERF to collude with all local mayors and police to stamp out the Occupy movement — continue and elevate to that level most Americans sadly and mistakenly still think could never happen here even though it has already begun, we might see the few missing ingredients from the authoritarian societies we know from the past. We’re getting there fast.

After hearing a bit about the Cyprus bank scandal, are confiscated deposits an inevitable reality for Americans given the recent pension looting across the country especially in Detroit, continued austerity proposals, and bailouts of Wall St?

A. Attorney and public banking advocate, Ellen Brown, has laid out a possible scenario on this happening in the US, and so this scenario does, indeed, need to be taken seriously, as does her work; she has been on this subject for years. In my opinion, while I don’t think confiscated deposits are, as of now, necessarily an inevitability per what happened in Cyprus– a bad, immoral, and economically stupid move that is rocking the foundations of their whole banking system as we speak since knowing one’s deposits is safe is what prevents bank runs which causes banks to fail even more than lack of adequate capital — I cannot say it is not possible or even probable given that banks are given free reign to do what they want.

That is, as long as they pay a penalty with the SEC, CFTC, and DOJ as the cost of doing business per what happened recently with JP Morgan and the London Whale debacle where their prop trade gambled and lost 6.2 billion — compare that to their overall, comparatively minuscule, 922 million settlement payout, recently — back stopped by depositors. This is why the destruction of Glass Steagall was a big deal among other things. The newly finalized Volcker rule may curb some of that (gambling with deposits) , but ultimately the language is vague enough where they can get around it, which means it’s not going to be effective enough to stop any moves on that front. What happened in Detroit is a classic divide and conquer strategy Wall St is perpetuating, in order to escape the blame for the toxic junk bonds bundled up into collateralized debt obligations with credit default swaps on top that they sold to all pensions, public and private, across the country — also rated AAA by the ratings agencies doing their bidding — while conservatives and neoliberals alike, blamed hard fought union benefits and pensions themselves instead of what is backing them for bankrupting cities and municipalities across the nation.

Wall St is responsible for the plunge in value of what’s backing all pensions ie the fraud involved in giving mortgages with teaser interest rates set to go up to people with no income, jobs, or assets on the fantasy that housing prices will continually rise so these borrowers can continually cash out on their equity, but that didn’t happen so payment streams in those CDOs dried up. and then cities like Detroit, already hollowed out from globalization from free trade agreements like NAFTA and before that, some preferential trade status for Japan from the Reagan administration on top of general competition with Japanese car companies, cannot pay the obligations owed to public sector workers. With Detroit’s ongoing depression on top of these Wall St financial shenanigans comes falling revenue, which is a problem, because unlike the federal government, state governments have to balance their budgets because of state constitutions stating that obligation. The continuation of all of this, as Detroit is looted per what you pointed out, can be laid at the feet of the Obama administration’s horrendous record of prosecuting financial crimes — their record is worse than both Bush administrations — and deeming TBTF banks too big to jail, because what incentive do TBTF banks have NOT to poison all pensions again?

They know they will get away with it, and they know who will be blamed since everyone blames unions for everything, even President Obama’s former chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, now Mayor of Chicago where he attacks teacher’s unions, is all part of Obama’s right wing race to the top education reform, which is also racist. So really, anything is possible right now with this wild-wild west, too big to fail or jail hell America is living through, thanks to you know who.

(R)Paul Ryan and (D)Patty Murray are working together on a budget deal which already includes a cut in cost-of-living increases in retirement benefits for military service members. Republicans still want to repeal Obamacare and Democrats are still folding on standing by the 99%, is there any point in those two working together?

A. In the words of the late great George Carlin, “Bipartisan usually means a larger than usual deception is being carried out.” This is true here, too. That 1% cost of living increase in retirement would mean an effective cut of $70,000-80,000 in retirement pay. We now know where Patty Murray’s bread is buttered, and it’s not veterans in her state; it’s mainly military contractors she is worried about, not federal workers that run her errands either.

She is about to step on them and their families just in time for the holidays. It’s a classic 1%er mindset she is inhibiting along with Paul Ryan. These people are out of touch with normal Americans who don’t have cushy gigs in this do-nothing cruel Congress. Nothing good can come from their callous, ignorant, craponomic austerity budget which does not include
unemployment insurance, as I predicted it wouldn’t when I predicted this whole short term crisis to crisis ordeal from the tax cut deal in 2010.

Those that made excuses for not including a debt ceiling raise in that deal and extending the Bush tax cuts without one by claiming they were saving unemployment insurance should never open their mouths about anything political ever again, except to apologize to the unemployed for being loyal to the idea of being in a politician’s fan club than the people around them who desperately need help.

There is no point except further stepping on the 99%. This Congress has been doing this since 2010 and 2011 when the Budget Control Act was passed enacting it’s 10 year austerity binge that started this year in addition to the sequester. This is what I call human sacrifice by economic terrorists in Congress spouting lies about the deficit needing to be paid off (it doesn’t because we create money as a sovereign country), and with suffering. Scared sacrifice, I call it.

Not shared sacrifice. A shock doctrine scenario with a made up crisis in order to destroy anything the 99% has left. That’s what this is.

What do you make of the left’s blind loyalty to Obama and their defense of his Bush-era policies? Are they afraid to admit they’ve been had and taken for fools by the first black president?

A. I think it’s revealing, though I would add quote marks in the word “left.” Many people who make excuses for everything President Obama does like to think of themselves as on the left, as they will constantly remind you in order to inoculate what they emulate and enable through these excuses. They very well may be too afraid to admit they have been had and taken in for fools by the first black president. This quote from Friedrich Nietzsche comes to mind, ‘Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.’

The symbolism from the Obama campaign and he being the first black president was a powerful thing, and some people can’t let go, even though it’s past time. Especially since black and Latino communities are suffering the most from the bust of the housing bubble; a bubble inflated by people President Obama hired in his cabinet, like Larry Summers, and Tim Geithner. The failed housing policies Geithner designed to “foam the runway for the banks” on foreclosures instead of write downs as told in former TARP general Inspector Neil Barofsky’s book, Bailout, shows this further. People cannot eat symbols. People cannot pay the rent with symbols and going off another Carlin quote, we should leave symbolism for the symbol minded. There are many people who falsely perceive that their unconditional support of the President somehow gives them credibility on the left. When called out on this, they lay out their list of anecdotal personal accomplishments, as if it’s relevant to the population like macroeconomic aggregate data.

However, we know that is a simple lie; a symbol lie; and symbolic of the lie that has become many of these peoples existence, in my opinion. I don’t know what they will do when the age of Obama is over. Perhaps they should remember that politics is about making peoples’ lives better instead of dreaming that they are vicariously doing so by living, vicariously, through a politician they admire. People suffering from his neoliberal policies need them to wake up before he starts collecting those speaking fees after his presidency at the Hamilton project as he once did in 2006.

In the last presidential election over 60 million votes went to Obama and Romney each. What does that tell you about the amount of political research conducted before Election Day?

A. It tells me that politicians and their handlers in both parties know how little time Americans have to inform themselves about how corrupt and bought each candidate is, and how corrupt and bought the system they are participating in is. The people that run both parties know most of America is just struggling to get by and are susceptible to short-form propaganda and brand slogans. Both parties’ committees operate as if they were advertising agencies doing research on the electorate. After all, the Obama campaign won an advertising award for the “Hope and Change” and “Yes, We Can” slogans.

Do you see the influence of third parties picking up steam and gaining more votes as more voters become outraged with our money-hungry do-nothing congress?

A. I would like to think so, but I honestly don’t know. More Americans seem to be open to the idea, but hating Congress — they do, because Congress has a 9% approval rating — does not necessarily mean abandoning our electoral system as it is. As it is right now, it is openly hostile to third parties and third party candidates. This is in addition to the millions of dollars spent during Republican and Democratic primaries, which are themselves, millionaire reality shows that last way too long.

No other modern Republic has quite the spectacle we do when it comes to how we anoint candidates instead of electing them either to run or govern. The public is involved in the process because it is hammered in their head over and over again, that they only have two choices. As we discussed earlier, all the institutions involved in what could be called a sham of a primary system and electoral process altogether, shut out third party candidates. The Commission on Presidential Debates does this every year, unless one has as much money as Ross Perot did in 1992 and can buy a place at that table, even though they are supposed to be non partisan.

So third party candidates then have to rely on the Russian government to fund a debate for them on RT. How ironic in a supposed “Representative Democracy?” This is because it is important for Democratic and Republican partisans on both sides to squash any talk of third parties; to rewrite history as they have with the 2000 theft of Democracy in Florida being Ralph Nader’s fault instead of the Kangaroo SCOTUS. The facts are in and that is a vicious lie, but it is a lie partisans viciously need when they drag people into the electoral process with false hopes and dreams only to dump them afterward like OFA did.

We need runoff voting, real campaign finance reform, and a host of other electoral reforms before third parties can get the boot off their neck so we can get the boot off ours. This is not pointed out to say one should vote for either Democrats or Republicans. I’m not saying that at all. This is to say people need to stop participating as if this is a real representative democracy under a system that only gives you a choice between Coke or Pepsi at the national level. In order to believe in the electoral process, at all, on the national level, reform is a prerequisite or it’s just a rigged game anyway you play. That’s what I say.

Name the two biggest issues Americans need to see fixed now.

A. Money in politics and record income inequality.

Who is priceman and what does he want?

A. I am just a long-term unemployed, artist/concerned citizen who wants Justice for the greatest financial crimes and war crimes ever perpetuated and covered up by two administrations; the Bush administration and the Obama administration. I also want a better standard of living for everyone. I want Congress to allocate spending until everyone has a job, because demand creates jobs. I want Congress to raise the minimum wage on par with inflation ($10.55) so those jobs can begin to be living wage jobs.

That is just a start. I think the minimum wage should be raised even higher, since if worker productivity was factored in, workers would be making $21.50 an hour. On top of that, the government should directly hire anyone who needs a job to cut down the labor pool of workers desperate for work, thus raising the price of labor on top of a floor that is above the price level and taking into account the surplus value of what workers produce. I want a full debt jubilee like economist Steve Keen talks about.

That is something we could theoretically do immediately, but unlike some Kings of old who forgave debts, the Obama administration is not interested in doing this. They want to preserve rent seeking activities, so I have to oppose them. Private debt is the problem and the private debt to GDP ratio collectively is above 300%. Students cannot discharge student loan debt in a bankruptcy court.

On top of that, education should be free or as close to it as possible, or it’s not worth it. I also want us to take the climate crisis seriously. I want Occupy Wall Street fully resurrected so these things might have a chance; we have been left to die by our government on these issues.

The sad thing is, I can want, all I want, but it doesn’t make our predicament less daunting. I don’t really know how to make them a reality, but that is what I am about. Thank you for the interview, Joslyn.

You can find Priceman on twitter or DailyKos making a difference by slapping fools upside the head with a truth and objectivity that’s sorely lacking on most political sites and news channels.

Average: 5 (2 votes)


Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

I will continue to read you at DKos.

Glad you haven't let them run you off.

Please keep fighting the good fight. Sorely needed over there are more diarists willing to cut through all the propaganda and petitions galore!

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

I am glad you liked this interview. However, you may be waiting a long time. I am still on hiatus and don't plan to spend a lot of time the Great Orange Shithouse. It's not about me letting them run me off, it's just that the site sucks, the administrators are awful cowardly hypocrites who stand for nothing or something awful, and I have better things to do then argue with the trolls they let run rampant all day.

Not that I couldn't kick their ass, because I used to do it on a weekly basis(why they whine and cry about me at their respective Obot echo chambers via the Peoples View(The spew as I refer to it) and Motley Moose(Moose-shit), until they whined to the mods to jump in on their behalf.

I do appreciate your support, Alexa. I don't mean to disappoint you. It's just that, like I said before, it's mostly for personal reasons for whatever future I can carve out for myself and to spend more time on art and writing with art rather than arguing online with people not worthy of my time.

It's worse now, more than ever. What's Happening and the Evening Blues is allowed to be trolled there with threats to out personal info and nothing is being done about it. WH is not published there anymore. A lot of bad things have happened since the Ted Rall witch-hunt there. the game is rigged against us and the moderators all want access like Markos does, and that's more important than anything or anyone over there that cares about issues.

But, when I get on my feet, every once in awhile, I will do what I can to fight the good fight. You should follow me on twitter. I will be spending more time there. I'm sorry if hearing this disappoints you(a few of my fiends are dissapointed) but you will always be cool with me.

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

Cool. I need to get off my ass and get it done, but once I have a few projects completed(I'm thinking graphic novels), I will share from them and promote them here and other places.

Thank you, Lambert!

Splashoil's picture
Submitted by Splashoil on

Always recc'd your words at Kos. I got banned when some fine fellows felt the boat rocking. Now I just don't know the value of an investment of energy at that operation. I wonder what Hemingway would think. I hate to give ground to the weasels but the venue is a hoax. Give Jed my regards as he searches for another morsel of Bachman to trumpet. If I were Marcos I would not have any mirrors in the house.

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

When were you banned? I know a number of people who were banned for daring to criticize the one, pointing out what I did in this diary in 2012. You're right; there is no value in investing any energy in that covert neoliberal Democratic gatekeeping operation so Markos can keep access and maintain a 1% lifestyle while pretending he's keeping it real. Indeed. We do know for whom the bell tolls at that site though. It's rather obvious now.

There are no reflections around Markos or within. It's a money game, except now with falling ad revenue Markos thinks people eh sends emails to begging for five dollars won't remember how they were treated sanctioned or directly by the man himself. He'll find out soon that Hillary supporters still remember the sexism he allowed as he begs them to come back to the fold at that site. I, of course have no interest in Wall St Hillary and never did, but it's obvious that Markos will have a Hillary 2016 mandate and it's going to further degenerate that orange shithole.

Thank you for your comment, Splashoil.

Submitted by lambert on

The question most Correntians ask each other!

Just be grateful they're not rewriting all of your work and airbrushing you out of the official photos in The Great Democratic Encyclopedia!

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

Heh, I see this is the case! :D Though I, myself, am not officially banned yet, I do wonder what will happen if anyone at the orange shithouse reads this. Fine by me!

Yep. Let the orange washing of blog history begin, so they will say. Maybe not today, but it could happen. Anything's possible in the world of third way gate-keeping.

Splashoil's picture
Submitted by Splashoil on

I got the boot just ahead of Ted Rall. In fact, I believe my last comment was in one of his diaries. Stay in touch.

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

Another victim of that BS witch hunt. I'm sorry that happened. That site is an embarrassment. I will stay in touch.

Submitted by hipparchia on

i got banned, then got reinstated, then after the health deform debate, left for good, so i've been gone for a long time. in two sentences or less, what happened to ted rall?

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

I can't explain it better than this, but Ted Rall was called racist for his depiction of Obama -- even though he depicts everyone crudely in his work as you will see from the link -- by hysterical Obama sycophants with little self reflection on what their flawed perception really means, even though almost every cartoonist that is critical of Obama is called racist on Daily Kos, regardless. So he was warned by administration about posting his cartoons there which is an effective banning.

Submitted by hipparchia on

ah, i see. thanks for the links.

i was reading this and thinking two things... one, that rall is correct about internet pile-ons, and two, depicting blacks as subhuman primates has a long and dishonorable history and surely rall should have been smart enough to realize this before now and much as i hate to be on the same side of any issue as the mindless howling mob at the great orange satan, i agree with them on this one. there are plenty of human faces (bush2, for example), white and non-white, that lend themselves quite well to caricature as monkeys or apes, but obama's doesn't really and rall is pretty blatantly relying on a tired (and rightly reviled) racist trope in his drawing here.

Submitted by lambert on

.... Rall's caricature of Obama does, in fact, look like an ape. I don't know what his caricature of Bush looked like, but none of the figures surrounding Obama in the cartoons that I saw looked like apes. So there you are. (That said, it's hard to see how any caricature of Obama wouldn't have been greeted by the Kossacks with the same reaction. It's also hard to see Rall backing down in the face of their assault, which, even though true, is not in good faith, since racism is their goto card for everything. If I had been Rall, I don't think I would have backed down either.)

* * *

I seem to remember Rall's views on policy as being fine, but unfortunately professional makers and shapers of visual tropes are judged on the tropes they make and shape.

* * *


1) Don't draw caricature of black people that make them look like apes;

2) Think once, twice, and three times before getting involved with Daily Kos.

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

Someone's lack of drawing skills does now show what's in their heart. I am not a fan of the artwork, but it doesn't look like the old blackface drawings or the primate drawings from the 30s used to hurt black people. I am not convinced of their argument. That Atlantic piece was not convincing. One has to already have that in their mind when looking at any crude drawing, in which All of Rall's drawings are(even his older one wasn't good), and I'm not really a fan of the artwork, but it's not racist; Rall's writing is good but his art isn't. Even if I assume that point has credence just for the sake of argument; Rall was not accused of being an inadvertent racially insensitive person like the Atlantic article was doing, erroneously.

On Daily Kos they said he was racist, straight up. IMO, they are looking and seeing a minstrel show and tribal garb everywhere they look clearly shown in thew other examples where it's clearly not there, when it comes to any depiction of the President in a cartoon, what does it say about that person? It doesn't look like an ape IMO.. I just see some crudely drawn cartoons which covers all of his work.

So I am going to go with the article I linked to. I know the history of using the kind of racist cartoonist drawings to dehumanize black people, most with clear symbolism and intent to that effect, and I don't see it. besides, the discussion is not about racism, it's about being inadvertently racially insensitive when we're talking about that, but they went straight to racism. Either way, I don't think it fits. That's a serious charge to call someone racist, and serious enough if one is going to call someone racially insensitive, but that wasn't the debate.

It relies on perception, which is subjective, anyway, and we didn't have to wonder about any examples you're referring to. The motive was clear. But anyway, that's fine. I won't go on and on about it. I am kind of tired of this debate.

Submitted by lambert on

Treating racism as an essentially personal characteristic shared only by tribal enemies trivalizes it, and means that treating racism as a systemic issue (and a matter of personal practice) is ruled out.

It's not a coincidence that Obots can pride themselves on their lack of racism while black people have done terribly under Obama by every measure.

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

Obot kossacks do, indeed, trivialize racism on all fronts as they deny it is a systematic issue under Obama or that suddenly Geithner's racist housing policies don't count or Eric Holder's drug war, both ultimately under the President in the executive branch; they deny civics and structural racist policies that have black people doing worse under Obama under every measure, as you say. The systematic issue involves using the system to make the lives of black people worse, and historically, and today, that is where real issue of racism resides.

Submitted by hipparchia on

Someone's lack of drawing skills does now show what's in their heart.

agreed, 100%. (although there's a fix for that...

i'm not in the least suggesting that ted rall make radical changes in his distinctive signature drawing style (unless he wants to). portraying black people as more ape-like than white people, whether accidentally or on purpose, is highly offensive and now that it's been pointed out to him, he can choose to make a few minor changes in his drawings of obama or he can choose to continue to be a dickhead.

I am kind of tired of this debate.

i don't blame you. otoh, you can imagine how tired black people must get of being portrayed as monkeys and apes when in the company of, or compared to, white people.

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

Well, that's good to hear. However, I don't need it nor do I think your last paragraph(I am talking about this debate that erupted, literally for the last few weeks, not whether something could or could not be racist) was necessary in putting that to me, as if I don't understand the problem with actual racist caricatures.

i don't blame you. otoh, you can imagine how tired black people must get of being portrayed as monkeys and apes when in the company of, or compared to, white people.

It's clear that I do, and the original piece I linked to has comparisons of all of Rall's characters and they are all crude and primitive, even the white ones, especially George Bush. They all have ugly cross hatching under the crudely drawn noses that can be perceived in many ways because none of them really look like who they are portraying. The lips are Simpsons like which do not look like Simian lips or anything like that. This seems to be a problem of perception with regard to what kind of drawings look like an ape and what kind do not.

When looking into it, it's not really that simple to compare it to the highly offensive minstrel show/ape like caricatures of the 30s if one cares to do side by side comparisons. One could say the features on Obama are more African than need be, but to just say they are automatically ape like in that fashion is not accurate.

However, from what I hear, Rall has changed his appearance, which is good. I do agree it's better to be safe than sorry, and I assure you, I certainly need no education on that front nor do I need to imagine anything. I know. I also know that nuance is required for making comparisons, because everything has nuance. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, I don't know, but I am just setting the record straight.

swalcott's picture
Submitted by swalcott on

awesome interview, never heard of priceman until now as i get the daily kos daily email but can't stand that sour taste of vomit in my mouth when i get see the faux-ggressive Obama boot licking show. blech.

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

I don't write there now as much as I did a year ago, though I made waves for awhile until the moderators showed their bias and started letting the Obot trolls run rampant in my diaries. It really is the faux-gressive Obama boot licking show, now. Blech, indeed.

blues's picture
Submitted by blues on

At least technically, it would be easy. But nobody cares! I have a whole blog devoted to simple score voting. I put a few articles covering other topics in it to stimulate interest, but since I’m the world’s slowest typist, it would be outrageously difficult to run a blog. The simple solution MUST have been known to the “political scientist” types for hundreds of years! Yet we currently have thousands of “political scientists,” mathematicians, game theorists, etc. putting out dozens of websites that discuss oddball "election methods” that are either too complicated to understand without deep study, pointlessly flawed, or extremely ineffectual.

The Portland Indymedia website has an article that went off topic because of a strange troll-like creature that Portland Indymedia decided to keep as a sort-of “pet troll.” In the comments wherein I argue with this pet troll, an amazingly full picture of the "election methods” conspiracy emerges. I URGE everyone to check it out at:

• Japan Is Now Fascist Again

Then there is my own rather sad blog where you might peruse the simple score voting articles (and also the other somewhat odd stuff I’ve added, if you are curious). The simple score voting articles are:

• If Only I Had Simple Score Voting…

• We Ain’t Got No Workers No More — Simply Demand Power!

• Germany Has Party List Proportional Representation. Too Bad

And they are at my website:

But nobody pays any mind to the greatest conspiracy in history, which is called “political science.” It took me years to unravel this, so it’s all just so damn depressing.

blues's picture
Submitted by blues on

Please read all my stuff.

The world just may not be what you were taught. Consider this please.

"Poli Sci" IS killing you!

But don’t listen to me. Just keep on doing what you have been. Things may improve. Yeah.

Take two hours and study the thing that is really destroying you.

Or just ban me for this like the rest.

I'm too old to care anyway.

priceman's picture
Submitted by priceman on

Indeed. :-) RIP. The King of Comedy IMO. That was a big loss for me. His work brought so much insight that I have to do what I have to do to keep it alive, because it's the truth.