Don't know about your city, but here in mine there were two tea parties, one downtown [so they could toss their teabags into the bay] and one further north [the one I accidentally ran into].
Sinfonian, bless his war tax resistance heart, is a South Florida blogger recently relocated to my neck of the woods, which for most progressives is like being sent to outer Mongolia, or Tibet maybe, to live in yurts and feast on sheep lung sausage.
So now the lefty blogosphere is all atwitter, delighting in an Enlightened One taking on the redneck rubes and living to tell the tale. Hey, even KO noticed!
I can understand lefties of all stripes being all giddy over the end of the Bush/Cheney regime, and taking delight in striking back against those whom they perceive to have put that cabal into power but ultimately, this is not the way to win over Southerners and woo them back to voting for the party that bills itself as the progressive one.
I'm particularly vexed by Jane Hamsher's take, that the locals were booing lower taxes. Wrong. They stopped cheering only when the war was mentioned, and didn't start actually booing until they were told that the Republicans are to blame for our economic woes. In the larger scheme of things, this is true. But all politics is local, and the Republicans and war are popular here, because their death dealing is just about the only reason we even have an economy in the Panhandle.
You want us on your side on taxes? Stop bailing out the kleptocrats. Get us Medicare for all. A living wage. Secure jobs. Better schools. A modern-day HOLC, accompanied by affordable housing.
Oh, and as for clinging bitterly to our guns, you can probably go to the grocery store, but hunting is the only way many families here can put meat on the table.
Speaking of Keith Olbermann, Howard Fineman gets it about right [starting at 6:00].
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Hmmmm
I watched the video, and I actually thought he was rather respectful and on point in how he dealt with the issue. The truth can be uncomfortable, but I don't see how his speech could be construed as some haughty liberal disrespecting local bubbas.
Albeit, I haven't yet read how this was covered on lefty blogs, but the actual content wasn't offensive or condescending, at all. I can say that I probably wouldn't have been able to keep the crowd for that long. That he was able to keep reclaiming the crowd after he lost him was something pretty impressive to watch if I'm to be honest.
EDIT: And, this really isn't about local politics. The talking points at all of these were the same, whether it was down there in Pensecola, or blue-as-the-tundra Michigan. Just now reading Jane's comments, I happen to agree with her. The unifying strains are sour grapes and dishonest hypocrites or total rubes. Few times in recent politics have I seen something so staged and so intellectually lazy and/or dishonest. You take a picture at any one of these things held the other day and read through just a handful of signs, and it really does tell you all that you need to know. I keep trying to see some debate that there was nuance in the gatherings, and I simply think that's a wish versus the reality of the gatherings.
I happened to be flipping through the channels, the other day, and came upon Fox and Neil Cavuto 'interviewing' some folks at a gathering in Sacramento. Before he thrust the microphone at the face of a nearby woman he was going on about how this wasn't a partisan event, how it wasn't Republican, but simply American. As soon as he gave the woman a chance to speak she thoroughly rebuked him letting him know that this was a conservative movement.
Even when they are trying to steer these things the truth can't be hidden.
But, we've always been at war with Eastasia...
Take lemons
make lemonade. Damon writes:
But I don't think it's all down to Sinfonian's oratory. It's almost impossible to sway or hold a crowd unless there's some way that they identify with what you're saying.
As I said elsewhere, I think we're focusing entirely too much on media products and "creative" [cough] "class" commentary, instead of looking at the people (which is the same critique I make pretty much everywhere). If the entire event, top to bottom, were AstroTurfed, they wouldn't have listened at all!
The good news here is that some of the rubes are up for grabs for a politics that's less toxic than what the Conservative
movement has to offer. The rubes, of course, have no place in today's shiny new Democratic party, any more than the 18 million who got thrown under the bus did. Will they agitate for single payer? Of course not. Would they not get in the way and grudgingly accept it? I bet they would -- if, say, we went after the banksters the way that they deserve.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
zackly
most of the 'rubes' in that video were yellow dog democrats, and had been for probably generations, until newt gingrich came along with his contract on america and lured the local politicians into the republican party. and so, like good partisans everywhere, the voters followed their already-elected officials and made the switch also. thirty years ago, republicans didn't even bother to run in local races, nobody would vote for them.
you got it, they won't agitate for single payer here, but most would be happy if you told them they could have guaranteed medicare just like grandma and grandpa have. when i talk to people individually, and show them how much their taxes will go up by, and then ask them to compare that to how much they spend on insurance premiums and copays and deductibles, and then tell them they could go to any doctor they want without worrying about in-network/out-of-network, they think it's a good idea, no grudgingly about it.
and yes, they hate paying taxes, but most of them would grudgingly accept that if they saw the banksters get what they deserve.
there will always be ideologues who remain anti-guvmint no matter what. the top-level organizers of this wingding certainly fall into that category, but a lot of the people who turned out for the protests are just what you said, up for grabs by the first party that comes along with some demonstrable fixes for their everyday problems [and a little justice for the thieving bastards wouldn't hurt either].
----------------
yep, on holding crowds, it's a bit of a challenge. sinfonian had them genuinely on his side with his question about who makes less than a quarter million, but there really wasn't a lot more he could have said, even if he'd wanted to, without hitting any of a number of hot buttons.
pensacola teabaggers boo lower taxes?
um, no.
people in that crowd were not booing lower taxes. they started booing when he started in on the war and republicans. *i* want to see us cut military spending in half [or more] and leave iraq and afghanistan yesterday, but that's an unpopular stance here. the war is a substantial part of our local economy just like cars are for yours.
like i said to lambert below, this area was solidly yellow dog democrat for ages. it could easily be that way again, but not if modern-day 'liberals' and 'progressives' go around poking 'the rubes' in the eye, mis-reading the reaction, characterizing them as stoopid, and laughing at them afterwards in their blogs and twitterfeeds.
way to win folks over to your side, democrats. not.
i'm all for pointing out the rampant hypocrisy of the organizers, and mocking them loudly and often, but the people who turned out for the protests really were in many cases just ordinary americans who are fed up with how crappy life has been for the last umpty-ump years.
sure, the turnout was mostly republicans, because how many non-republicans take rush limbaugh, fox news, et al seriously enough to support one of their suggested actions? how many non-republicans are going to be on republican organizers' email lists? as for the posters all being the same, any good organizer of an event like this has a list of suggestions for what to say, on posters, in person if you get interviewed by the media, etc.
[i try to keep up with the florida political blogs, so i've been reading sinfonian for a couple of years now. my guess is that he deliberately set out to be the public square equivalent of a concern troll here, but that wasn't my main point.]
Well, and good for him...
... but it's weird how it fed upward to the twits instead of out to the rubes. Which would be more useful, I wonder?
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
?
not sure what you mean by fed upward to the twits.
It didn't go horizontally in FL...
... but upward to the national media, via "twit"ter. Though I use twitter too, it doesn't seem to get any hits. Different medium.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
but hipparchia
peeing all over people whose support you will need at some point has been extremely successful for the OFB
. They've had Versailles
in a swoon over their guy and easily gone from triumph to triumph. Unfortunately for the rest of us, they won't wake up and get it until it's too late and the "libruls are snotty elitists" meme once again becomes gospel.
BTW, hipparchia, you are on it today! I love your stuff anyway, but you've really hit the nail on the head repeatedly today! :)
urgh... i hope ko isn't reading this
i don't think i could stand it if he were to work golden showers into his teabagging commentary.
yeah, those elitists who fancy themselves liberals still have a thing or two to learn about populist rage and what to do about it.
i'm amazed at how many otherwise smart people don't seem to get that hamas won elections not because the palestinians wanted a more militant and fundamentalist islam, but because hamas was 2% less evil than the u.s.-favored fatah. both parties are corrupt, but at least hamas made an effort to provide some social services -- trivialities like schools and hospitals, for instance -- in exchange for being allowed to indulge in a little honest graft.
the republicans haven't been 2% less evil than the democrats, but for a lotta years now they've managed to paint themselves as being more responsive to the voters than the dems.
aww... thanks [blushes]
It's all about Versailles
From a source with unknown reliability, the "brave" CNN reporter who exposed the "racist bumpkins" for the entertainment of the creative (cough) class actually applied for a job with FOX prior to working for CNN. The more things change...
Only two months late in commenting ...
Hey, Hipparchia --
I'm not sure whether you'll ever read this, but I just stumbled upon your commentary tonight. Since it was posted in the wee hours of Friday morning after the Teabaggers' Ball, I guess I'd quit looking at the reviews of my "act" by then. And I had no idea we were neighbors! Thank you for linking and for following Blast Off! over the years.
Anyway, I'm not really sure how to respond to your comments, except to say that your take (I was kind of a "concern troll") is pretty much how a lot of the wingnuts took it as well. Problem is, that was never my intent. First off, I never planned to speak when I went downtown -- I only thought of that when I discovered, as the event got underway, that they were doing the "open mic" thing. (So much for message control ...) And secondly, I merely wanted to expose the teabaggers' hypocrisy. It was never a deliberate, preconceived strategy, unless you count the few minutes I thought about what to say while waiting to speak.
Of course they weren't booing lower taxes; in fact, they indeed were booing my statement regarding blaming Bush and the Republicans for the massive increases in federal spending. But I was just trying to point out that (1) this was anything but a "nonpartisan" activity, and (2) precious few if any of them will experience the alleged tax increases that nearly all of them were there to decry.
I know most of these folks came from solidly yellow dog Dem stock. My girlfriend's mother, a Pensacola native and near-lifelong resident, falls squarely into that category. And I'm realistic enough to know that my impromptu remarks were unlikely to sway them from their blind allegiance to the Republican Party. But if it made the reasonable, "ordinary Americans" in attendance think just for a few minutes about what the event really meant, then maybe it did some good. I certainly wasn't trying to mock them ... although I might have been trying to mock the Republican organizers just a little bit. ;)
Blast Off!: keeping America's Wang™ safe for democracy since 2004.
hey, sinfonian!
it's awfully kind of you to take the time to drop by and explain, especially in light of the fact that yes, i was unlikely to find your comment and i wouldn't have revisited this post if it hadn't been for a comment that somebody else made just recently.
i don't begrudge you your enjoying being a bit of a concern troll [eesh, that's some wingnuttery there], i get a kick out of tweaking the conservatives' noses a bit too.
my beef wasn't really with you [and you did a pretty good job with that crowd btw, i'm impressed] but more with the rest of the lefty-sphere for their knee-jerk reactions and their complete and total inability to see not just why they can't reach the people in who turned out seville square and on davis hwy, but how they lost them in the first place.