Have been the province of militaristic authoritarians. I flew a flag after 9/11 but took it down when Bush exploited post-attack jingoism to rationalize imperialistic madness. I guess that means I stopped being a real American.

And I'm not sure you can blame Wal-Mart on liberal yuppies. Gentrification is double-edged. When done right, authentic local culture gets supported, when done wrong, it's obliterated.

And let's face it, DFHs have been marginalized in political thought because they aren't the "real Americans" that journalists lovingly condescend to. Boston, NY, SF, etc. aren't "real" America. We probably shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Paul, there is so many more real Village smears to defend against; why'd you go and choose to try and defend the indefensible talk of "real" Virginia and "pro-American" parts of the country?

I can almost understand the arguments about "real" Virginia, as those kinds of arguments are made about all kinds of cities with high levels of transplants, but you totally lost the whole post with equating flag-waving to patriotism.

Really, you're trying far, far too hard to defend stuff progressives really shouldn't be caught defending or even explaining. It's a really bad look. Let's leave places like Red State and others to defend this, and let us defend progressive values, OK?

...and arguing semantics. At the end of the day, this is a post as defending things we shouldn't be defending. Furthermore, you're still arguing an inherent connection between the displaying of the flag, or a flag, and patriotism and worming your way through a discussion about the size of the flag. This stuff should offend the sensibilities of a place like this, and offend your own sensibilities if you're really a liberal or progressive.

I'm really at a loss as to why you'd be trying to defend some pretty offensive comments by some conservatives made over the last few days. Those comments were in no way taken out of context. They were offensive comments all by themselves in and out of context. Why don't you leave the conservatives to try and defend those kind of ideas and concern yourself with defending progressive and liberal values?

it's purely because Obama is their chosen one this time that they're painting it as a bad thing.

they ALWAYS paint the middle of the country and red states as "real America" and the "heartland" and trash urban areas as not really American.

all those thousands of flags whipping in the wind or hanging in the weather and the darkness until they became faded, tattered, and finally discarded (flying off the antennas of all those SUVs with the big "Bush-Cheney" stickers), were you, Paul?

Did that happen in "real" Virginia too?

Respect for the flag -- and what it stands for -- went out the window between 9-11-01 and the day the war in Afghanistan (remember that? A Sunday in October?) started.
Like everything else Bush touched, it's been turned to ... debris, on the ruins of which the GOP stands with a bullhorn to try to hide its impotence.

We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18

What part of Virginia was hit on 9/11? ARLINGTON, home of the Pentagon. That and a whole plane load of people who had left Dulles airport, including members of a marching band from a local HS.

You really make me sick. Waving a flag doesn't make you a patriot.

Having said that, I see as much flag waving in the greater Wash area as any other area.

And guess what, those Republicans are only too happy to take those donations that come from the DC 20036 and 20008 zip codes, where most donations come from, except from the ones that come from McClean VA, and Chevy Chase MD.

The whole discussion makes me sick sick sick.

What's going on, guy? Your comments don't really hold up, and that is unusual for you.

Flag waving does not determine patriotism. I grew up in a city in central Illinois. There were flags all over the place, especially during Vietnam. All that flag symbolized to them was hate for the DFHs and blind allegiance to the US government. Many of the most ardent flag wavers did not bother to vote and spent not one minute of personal time on civic affairs. It was all talk, no action for them.

Give me the folks who invest in their communities, who learn the issues, who vote, who volunteer. Patriotism requires action, not symbols.

(grumble, casey stole my headline, grumble)

Gotta start thinking these posts through before you put them up; let 'em sit a day or two, then re-read and look for the problem areas:

And if you can’t be bothered putting a small flag in your front yard on those holidays, then I don’t think you can claim the mantle of “patriotism”.

Oh, and btw, I don’t own a flag.

Bu-bu-bu-bu-but then, ah, um, doesn't that mean you aren't flying the flag on those holidays? And doesn't that mean, by your own criterion, that you aren't a true patriot?

Self-outing is a noble virtue, certainly there's a measure of rectitude in admitting one's flaws, but still; at some point the heated advocacy for a position you don't yourself achieve descends to incoherency. Sorry to say, that's where you are with this one.

When the wealthy PEOPLE that are running things crap on the rest of us. They use that word to stop all protests to them stealing and abusing others.

It's a way to keep the "marks" (working people) from taking matters into their own hands, so the wealthy criminals can abuse them for their own gain.

It's also a way to keep people fighting so the wealthy can make a profit off wars and other military actions.

From where I sit, it looks to me like it is mostly a public relations gambit to keep people dancing to THEIR tune, while dying and forking over all their assets. It has gone on for a very long time, and is very similar to how people are fans of sports teams.

And, quite frankly, I'm getting tired of it. The whole "not patriotic doesn't equal unpatriotic" is rhetorical bullshit. Really, what is the ultimate point of that worm? To defend vile conservative talking points, and for what reasons? If you were a real progressive or liberal, you'd have felt no need to try and even explain these vile charges against fellow Americans.

You want to dally around with the Michelle Bachmann's of this country? Well, looks like you just got burned. How you could even think you were doing yourself or progressive causes good with this post is beyond me. Really, stop wasting our time if this is how you're going to post from now on.

But, we expect nothing less from you. Now, please do get back to being the very strangest bedfellow with Paul. I'm sure he so much appreciates your enviable support and defense. Please mark this day down on the blogs calenders; Paul just received an endorsement from the, uh...venerable, yes, that's the word I'm looking for, venerable BIO, this blog's very own patron saint of acerbicity and...bitterness. Please don't hesitate to continue to bless us with your presence.

is that you don't have to be a knee-jerk jingoist to love your country.

and that not hanging up the expected decorations and conforming to somebody else's schedule isn't the same thing as being unpatriotic.

or at least that's what I'm hearing. Paul?

Oh, and Damon? Yeah, I'm with Bringiton. You're tiresome.

Who never displayed the flag, not out of protest, but because we simply never did that? Why do you feel the need to make a distinction between "patriotic", "not-patriotic", and "un-patriotic" unless you were trying to make the point of the superiority of one of things over the other?

Please, read your original post out loud, to yourself, and then read their your subsequently disconnected and worming respones. How are you going to start railing against right-wing framing when the very premise of the thread was built around right-wing framing?

You can't worm your way out of this:

In some parts of the country, its tough to find a flag displayed on the Fourth of July and Memorial Day. In other places, flag display on “patriotic” holidays is the norm — the places where you didn’t wait until 9-11 to wear a flag pin.

No matter how many more times you try and walk it back and totally warp your position from the original thread, nor can you worm your way out of this:

these people have no connection to Virginia, no roots there, and are “real” Virginians on in terms of census data — their culture is that of the political and media elite, and has no “Southern” roots.

No, the problem is not only do you try and use right-wing framing, yourself, to defend the indefensible, but you go even further by implying (if ever so subtly) that being "patriotic" is superior to being "non-patriotic" and definitely better to be "unpatriotic", and that "real" and "Southern" Virginia is better than "McMansion" and "DC Villager" Virginia.

Who are you trying to fool? This is hardly your first post, either, where you've gone out of your way in favor or right-wing framing. Why are you going out of your way to try and defend the idea of a "real" Virginia and "pro-American" parts of this country unless you agree with that kind of bullshit framing?