[Welcome, Do-Bees! --lambert]
Obama Orders Burger With Elitist European Condiment (by Pareene at Gawker)
When Barack Obama made headlines by eating a hamburger this week, we were disappointed that he ruined his by ordering it medium-well. Sean Hannity, though, found something far worse. Obama didn't want good-old-fashioned American ketchup. No, Mr. "Common Man" over here wanted his hamburger with "spicy mustard"—or, horror of horrors, "dijon." Dijon! Real Americans don't like things that actually make things taste like things, Princess OBambi! Then Sean Hannity plays the old "Grey Poupon" commercial, as if having seen that commercial 20 years ago is the only reason an adult man who lives in Chicago (where ketchup is not considered an acceptable condiment for a hot dog, btw, Mr. Hannity) would want "spicy mustard." Then he literally says this: "I hope you enjoyed that fancy burger, Mr. President."
Ingraham on Obama: "What kind of man orders a cheeseburger without ketchup, but Dijon mustard?" (video at County Fair, Media Matters for America)
Limbaugh fill-in Steyn on Obama using Dijon mustard: "John Kerry couldn't get away with that stuff but he makes it seem like just like a regular thing to do" (video at County Fair, Media Matters for America)
Silly? Yes. Ridiculous? Yes. Effective? Judge for yourself:
Pew Research Center
How to fight the ridiculousness—by showing how ridiculous it is:
Dan Rather, Daily Show Correspondent (by Ryan Tate at Gawker)
Right-wing ideologues were apparently allowed inside CBS to help drive Dan Rather from his job. So maybe it's no surprise he helped the Daily Show mock Fox News conservatives [Thursday night]. Rather's segment, a mock report about Richard Nixon eating a burrito in 1973 (clip below), keyed off Sean Hannity's slam of Barack Obama for requesting "spicy mustard... or a Dijon mustard" on his cheeseburger the other day.
It's awesome that Rather went along with this, not only because he actually was a TV journalist in 1973, but also because his Laugh-In delivery style provides a nice break from the fake-news-show's relentless (if smart) sarcasm. If this fake news up-and-comer plays his cards right, maybe he actually make a name for himself inside a vaunted news organization with unquestioned dominance over the industry (Comedy Central).
Click through to watch the video.—Caro
How NOT to fight the ridiculousness:
The Republican Death Spiral (Political Wire)
Time magazine's cover story on how the Republican party -- with no new ideas and a lack of leadership -- has lost its way.
Don’t assume the Republican Party is dead now, because exactly the same kinds of stories were being written about Democrats only four years ago.—Caro
And this is the most dangerous policy move Democrats can make:
Hoyer Says Social Security "Reform" Possible This Year (by Chris Bowers at Open Left)
In case there was any doubt Social Security "reform" is on the table under the Democratic trifecta, Majorty Leader Steny Hoyer should have erased it…: “House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said Wednesday he's ‘hopeful’ that Congress will reform Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid later this year, after lawmakers deal with contentious healthcare reform and energy bills…”
Taking comfort in easy solutions (writer not identified, Free Exchange, The Economist, U.K., thanks to Economist’s View)
I wonder if not privatising Social Security a few years ago turned out to be a missed opportunity. Imagine, some fraction of that 12.6% (including employee and employer contributions) of your income buying shares (though the plan was not necessarily to invest in the stockmarket) right now instead of being ploughed into a government programme that will probably cut your benefits. The return on your tax dollar toward Social Security is less than 2% and will most certainly fall further. You might be saying, "But if we privatised my portfolio would be down 30% now!" Keep in mind, if you have many years before retirement there's a good chance your portfolio will recover.
My comment: Social Security is an insurance plan, not an investment vehicle. Name one other insurance program that is required to show a "return on investment". But if you insist on showing a "return", it should include the money I DIDN'T have to pay to support my parents in THEIR retirement, in addition to what I receive in mine. How does a stock market investment stack up against that?—Caro
O'Reilly, Stossel agree that Medicare is a "ponzi scheme" (video at County Fair, Media Matters for America)
Click here for more politics and media news headlines.
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
- Caro's blog
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Comments
Four years ago people said the Dems had lost their way
And that's inaccurate how?
As I remember it ...
... the Democratic Party was totally destroyed and could never win another election, according to the gasbags. But rather than fight for any principles (since they apparently have none), Democrats helped Bush practically destroy the country so that Americans would be disgusted enough to vote Republicans out. Now Democrats are in by default, and the Republicans are blaming all that destruction on Obama and the Democrats.
In the past, it has been the Republicans who eventually win when it comes to message wars, and even branding wars, so it will be interesting to see how it works out this time. If the Republicans do rise from the dead, it will be because liberals, progressives, Democrats refuse, no matter what the evidence of need, to mount a sustained campaign to reinforce in voters' minds the importance of liberal values in the lives of most Americans.
But you're definitely right about the astray part.
Republicans just jumped ship
Wall Street, Powell, Hagel, Chafee, Specter, ...
Change of heart or change in Party name?
"Republicans" aren't in disarray, they are just trying to change their name.
Fourth sign of the Apocyclypse
My God! What kind of man eats Dijon on a cheeseburger! And no ketchup!
Dogs and cats! Living together! Mass hysteria! Real end of the world stuff!
As for the Social Security; well it took Nixon to go to China, right? Now that Social Security is removed as a political football*, it can be completely dismantled by the finance wing of the Democratic party.
*Thanks geniuses!
Sorry, I don't fall in love with politicians. I'm not that desperate.
I'm not that familiary with the PPI-Is it influential? A group
to be reckoned with?
This Bob Pozen seemed pretty willing to glom onto rightwing talkingpoints.
Looks like "Third Way" Dems
Shares the site with the DLC. No list of funders I could find.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
as i understand it
but i'm a bit fuzzy now, it's been a couple of years since i looked it up... dlc is the political organization, ppi is their think tank, and third way is/was sorta the marketing arm [as well as an unofficial name of their worldview].
the new democrats and the dlc are somehow related. i sorta vaguely think i read somewhere that one of them is a splinter group from the other one, same politics more or less, but the personalities didn't get along.
center for american progress [think tank] and center for american progress action fund [$$] were started by john podesta as sort of a dlc-in-exile during the bush years.
i'm not entirely sure how well these organizations do or don't play well together, and there are some others, but i forget who they are.
Right wing memes are poison
Avoid. (As I thought had been understood from the teleprompter discussion.)
Worse, there's also not on single solitary shred of evidence that the Pew Poll results are caused -- heck, even correllated -- by these partocular "silly" winger memes.
Could it be that this particular number is caused by Obama's perfomance problems, rather than the bloviations of right wing talk show hosts?
I yield to nobody in my distaste and disgust for the work that the Finance Wing of the FKD is doing to the country, but we need to proceed from an evidentiary base. Good snark does that -- in fact, it begins from that.
De-front-paged.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
So debunking them ...
... is not permitted.
The debunking would be where?
n/t
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Guess you missed all this in your rush to criticize:
>>where ketchup is not considered an acceptable condiment for a hot dog, btw, Mr. Hannity
>>Silly? Yes. Ridiculous? Yes. Effective? Judge for yourself:
>>How to fight the ridiculousness—by showing how ridiculous it is:
>>How NOT to fight the ridiculousness:
Yep
See yesterday here, and today, point 2. The headline read "Obama Orders Burger With Elitist European Condiment" and for some reason that framed my expectations for the rest of the piece...
UPDATE I've written pieces like that myself, back in the day. I don't write them anymore.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Agreed on winger memes, but I read it differently
I didn't like the last "teleprompter" meme post and said so at the time. I thought this time Caro was pretty clearly snarking purely about how bullshit the "dijon, but no ketchup" meme was, including the funny link to Dan Rather's spoof of it on Daily Show.
Or at least that was my own mileage.
This elitist dijon thing is the most lame retread of what they did to Clinton, Gore, Edwards, Kerry, Clark, etc., etc.. It is just stale (no pun intended) boilerplate winger meme. It's in fact so old and tired it's like they aren't even trying any more. They are like punch drunk fighters, and everybody who is complaining about this one is just holding them up in the corner to make it look like there is something still left to see here. It's really pathetic, and, if not for their crying out for (and getting) the blood of millions spilled on our collective hands, you would almost feel sorry for them.
Sorry, I don't fall in love with politicians. I'm not that desperate.
OK, fair enough
I missed the Stewart thing -- which, unlike Fox, had no embedded video, and was further down in the piece. My bad for reacting too fast.
Then again, if that was the lead, there was no visual cue, and it was buried.
So, make the lead the lead, and then the right wing stuff doesn't propagate.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
However, my larger point remains
Here's why.
I claim that adopting right wing memes destroys left discourse. (Example: CDS in the primaries). This is hardly surprising, since skilled practitioners were paid to design these memes to produce exactly that result.
Having had the teleprompter disccussion, and now this discussion, I'm considering a corollary: Examining the (putative) evidence for any right wing meme will always produce discourse more useful to the left than simply refuting the right wing meme. (We can think of right wing discourse as constantly misdirecting, in a meta sleight-of-hand fashion. While we're arguing with the cup and balls guy about how he's cheating, his confederate is picking our pockets.)
I don't have that methodological principle clearly formulated, but I think there's something there. Two examples:
1. In the teleprompter episode, VL actually viewed the YouTube being propagated, and found Obama dissing people who have to go to the ER. I would argue that is far more interesting and potentially useful -- both from a populist, and a health care perspective -- than the stale and unfunny teleprompter snark.
2. Just now, I went and looked at the Pew research that Caro linked to. And I would argue that the complete collapse of the idea that Obama would bring "change" (36 -> 10) is far more interesting and useful than an increase in perceiving Obama as arrogant (5 -> 9). In fact, since the former can't have been pushed by the wingers -- since they're trying to paint Obama as a socialist -- and the latter is (since it's a lame-oh attack) the real point of the survey regarding the conservative attack on Obama (re Dijon) is not that "it works," but that the effect is small relative to people coming to conclusions about Obama themselves. This is a new media landscape and we should get used to it. Perhaps the day of Media Matters is past, or they should dedicate themselves to destroying truthiness where found, instead of focusing solely on conservatives.
Bottom line is that adopting right wing memes destroys left discourse, and that even making them the starting point for a discussion is destructive, although less virulently than simply adopting them (CDS again).
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
+100
Yup.
Something new is going on too
Remember Josh Marshall's bitchslap theory of Republican politics? What if the person slapping you is on life support? Do you still slap back?
Wouldn't it be nice if Media Matters, instead of primarily taking on Fox, would also take on the lies and truthiness coming out of our government? You know, the one that:
"
"Rather than fixating on meaningless tripe from morons, which has exactly zero impact on our lives.
Sorry, I don't fall in love with politicians. I'm not that desperate.
Media Matters has done some great work...
but AFAIK (as it were, and Boehlert's piece on that was first-rate), they were completely asleep at the switch on the great FITH meltdown of 2008, and it made me wonder what kind of media watchdogs they'd be with media spin created by and for the Obama administration. My blog-reading list is quite small these days, so maybe they're doing great muckraking that I just haven't caught, but if they're like other one-time media-critique stalwarts, maybe not so much.
Not talking about them, ...
... not criticizing them, promotes them more than talking about them and criticizing them.
Otherwise, we wouldn't need Media Matters for America. Or blogs. Or anything.
We could just let the right wing have its way with us, as we did for so long.
Oh, Caro, nobody does it like The Horse
but the Horse is gone. Sigh.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
If you had read the entire post ...
... at MakeThemAccountable
http://makethemaccountable.com/index.php...
you would have seen the change graphic. Ditto if you had read the newsletter I send you every time I post at MakeThemAccountable.
On my previous post at Corrente, you beat up on a guy for not knowing that the Black Agenda Report has been consistently critical of Obama.
Yet you jumped the gun yourself on this.
Various responses
I have this blog to manage, and its posts. These posts should be standalone cross-posts, like all the others, and not mere teasers for posts at some other blog, where one has to go to get the full story. (It never occurred to me that I would even have to say this, but apparently, I do.) I have no duty to go elsewhere for another layer of interpretation, as "if you had read the original post" implies that I do, and I don't have time to. Nor is it likely most readers will.
Now, regarding the BAR commenter that I "beat up."
1. If anybody here says or implies that BAR and Glen Ford are Obama Fans, that's not just incorrect, it smears a potential ally. Wrong and dumb. If pointing that out, and getting it corrected, here and at the original source -- which I took care of before it spread and contaminated other blogs, I hope -- is beating someone up, then I guess I'll just have to live with it.
2. The BAR case and this case are distinct and I'm not sure why you would think they're the same. I'm reasonably aware of your work (unlike the BAR commenter, who just hadn't done their homework). And yes, I plead guilty to not realizing that the main point of the post had no video and was buried, instead of being in the lead, with a video, and jumping the gun. I thought it was like the teleprompter post, and it wasn't.
3. Most importantly. since it concerns method (and not merely accuracy and tactics (#1) or the mechanics or reading and writing (#2)), and why this whole thread is valuable, since it turned up pure gold, you write:
That's not what I wrote. My point is not -- as you seem to think that it is -- that the right wing or its memes shouldn't be attacked (Who could possibly imagine that? The BAR commenter?) Rather, I wrote:
I notice that you have no substantive response. See above for why, and the example.
So, we've dealt with treating people like LJ as authoritative. We've dealt with propagating Michelle Malkin's memes even if they're "funny." Now we deal with not taking right wing memes as a starting point since (two examples given) if we do, we're misdirected away from more important information than the right wing meme itself (again, see above) So, I'm arguing for a better form of critique. If that's beating people up, then so be it.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
+1000 on bar and clicking through
if you're guest posting on someone else's blog [which is essentially what most of us are doing here], readers should be able to get the whole story in that one post, rather than clicking through to another blog [although having them click through to read more of the supporting detail is probably ok].
glen ford doesn't preface every single one of his essays with i've been opposed to obama for x number of years... nor should he have to. sure, you can't tell from that one essay just exactly how long glen ford [and black agenda report] has held his present opinions of obama, but jumping to the conclusion that ford was until very recently an obamabot smacks of obama derangement syndrome.
i thought the teleprompter meme was stoopid, and the totus thingy insipid, but coming from a family, as i do, that has both politicians and political cartoonists in it, i'm all for ridiculing the ridiculous -- loudly and offensively and often.
Yes, but...
... see the discussion on never, never making the right wing meme the starting point (supported by two rather powerful examples, though I say it). This is a serious critique of method ("pure gold"). Start with our frame, not theirs! Obviously, I'm not against ridiculing the ridiculous, but the way that it's done is important. (Which I'm sure your family would say, too.)
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Mustard Phobia!
If the link had been presented as "Mustard Phobia! - New Republican Electoral Strategy?" (or some such) rather than "Obama Orders Burger With Elitist European Condiment", we wouldn't have had this bracing conversation.
What a shame that would have been.
Sorry, I don't fall in love with politicians. I'm not that desperate.
Headlines are critical
because they frame reader's expectations.
I can't tell you how many times I've said that, on the blog, and in email.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Okanogen: the GOP fears mustard lest spillage show
their true (chickenhawk greedy) color: a shade of yellow.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
agreed
the mustard and teleprompter attacks don't work for me, but that just makes me one data point among many, and i could be in a tiny minority for all i know.
you, otoh, are providing a lot of us with a soapbox we would not otherwise have, and if you find a particular method anathema, you get the final say.
i personally prefer start with our frames, not theirs, but republicans have proven themselves skillful at starting with liberal frames and turning them to conservatives' advantage. if anyone on our side should prove themselves adept at this tactic, well and good, it's another piece in the lefty arsenal, but liberals have so far proven themselves to be mostly inept at starting with republican frames and turning them to liberals' advantage.
It stands to reason it's very hard to do
They are engineered, I would argue, to prevent exactly that. Begin with what we want to accomplish, and fit in what they do. Then we're not in reactive mode all the time. (And I would argue that MM, as I did above, is at this point a mopping up operation....)
Let's not get better at hitting spitters. Let's figure out how to charge the mound...
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
i'm a sucker for baseball metaphors
go for it.
i'd have said that the difficult to do part is that republicans are skilled at turning liberal frames to their advantage because they are both skillful, practiced liars and willing to lie as often and loudly as it takes to turn public opinion to their side.
I'm reading this blog
Not another blog. This blog is not a blog-whore ad spot for another blog. Your posts here should stand alone without needing to click through to another of your blogs for context or clarification.
Given the history of your posts, I know why Lambert has a low tolerance for percieved winger talking points on your posts. You've adopted them before, and that is why I usually steer clear of your posts.
Given that history, it is less than straight forward for you to claim you are debunking right-wing memes. Yesterday adopting, today debunking. Lambert is right, your post wasn't all that clear. Even though through careful reading, I understood your point, I wasn't inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you had polished it up based on his criticism, your post would better reflect your intent, it would have been better for the blog, and it would have been better for you since it wouldn't have been de-frontpaged.
Is there another lesson to be learned here? An old one regarding polished writing?
Sorry, I don't fall in love with politicians. I'm not that desperate.
So suggesting alternative methods ...
... of fighting them is not permitted.
The alternative methods would be where?
n/t
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
What are you talking about, Caro?
What alternative methods? All I see is your whining, here.
You wrote your post as an ad for another blog. You got called on it. Now you're being defensive and claiming readers owe you something. That's bassackwards (and approximately 90% of the current fault with 'reportage) -- YOU owe your audience the facts and information in an accessible form ON FIRST LOOK.
Otherwise you're going to be dismissible, and shortly thereafter ignored as a matter of course. That's what the writers in this thread are trying to get you to understand, and you're continuing to refuse (and whine about stuff you imply but don't explain).
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
So fighting for a sustained program ...
... to combat the thinking caused by them is not permitted.
That would be where in this post?
And is if I wasn't doing that very thing day in and day out.
"not permitted" my sweet Aunt Fanny.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
My point, exactly.
You do it, but you criticize me for doing it.
Nope
The response, given at length, is elsewhere on this thread. I await your substantive response.
Whatever "do it," might mean, of course.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
I for one learned something important from this mustard mess--
I've never liked cheeseburgers -- something about the slight sweetness of the ketchup and cheese puts me off my feed. But, reading that Obama ordered his with mustard! Spicy Chicago style, first choice, then mentioned Dijon as the backup in case the DC burger joint didn't have spicy mustard? Well, gave me a whole new approach to cheeseburgers. Sounds pretty tasty!
Regular burgers? I drown them with catsup. Last act of Hamlet right there on a bun and my plate.
So. I went out to the grocery store for the 50% off ground beef sale.... Test time tonight.
I also thought the flow of links very nicely deflated the rightwingers and MCMers playing this game.
last act of hamlet!
there went my lavender chamomile tea all over my keyboard.
obama went up in my estimation here, cheeseburgers with spicy mustard are pretty darn good, especially if it's sharp cheddar cheese.
Yes! With cheddar--blue cheese is quite all right with catsup,
however. Nice, tangy, crumbled. Yummmm. Occasionally.
But that's as garnish, not a cheeseburger.
mmmm, bleu cheese
garnish?! i much prefer that the hamburger be the garnish for my plate of bleu cheese. also, with onion, not catsup.
also also, catsup is for hot dogs, not hamburgers.
he he hee ... a cheezburger fight!
love it.
Proper cheeseburger:
Sourdough bun, split and grilled after the meat comes off the grill, to absorb dripping
Two patties (each about 1/3 pound) of lean ground beef seasoned as follows:
Per pound of ground beef, use the following seasonings:
(if cooking indoors; over charcoal, omit the liquid smoke.)
At least one hour before cooking, mix 93/7 ground meat with seasonings (let stand to develop flavors in a bowl in the fridge):
1/2 teaspoon kosher salt
1 teaspoon coarse ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon onion powder
1/4 teaspoon garlic powder
1/4 teaspoon liquid mesquite smoke
1/3 teaspoon New Mexico red chile powder
1/4 teaspoon paprika
1/8 teaspoon cayenne
1/2 teaspoon Heinz 57 sauce OR 1/2 teaspoon Heinz ketchup, to bind
Preheat grill. Brush with 1 tbsp melted butter (for a 12x15 electric surface).
(Or build a charcoal fire with mesquite charcoal) and grill burgers indirectly).
Form meat into patties about 1/2 inch larger in diameter than your bun, and lay on hot grill. Leave 'em alone for a minimum of six minutes. This creates a sear and stops the meat from crumbling. Turn once, cook six minutes more. Lift off onto plate lined with paper towels, grill buns 1 minute (or put 'em over the coals during the last couple of minutes of cooking the meat, in which case you need to very lightly butter the buns). YES, you want ground meat cooked thoroughly. (Trust me, I used to work in public health.)
While bun is warm smear half of it with good mayo and the other half with good mustard (I like spicy brown but Dijon is ok). On the mustard half lay down a slice of sharp cheddar big enough to cover the bun. Lay a meat patty on top of this. If you want onions and pickles, (use red onion and dill pickles) put them on top of this patty UNDER the 2nd slice of cheese. Top with 2nd meat patty. Top this with sliced fresh ripe tomato, shredded lettuce, and the mayo half the bun. Serve with fries or chips and iced tea.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
he he hee ... it's all part of our evil conspiracy!
to get you to invite us all over to your place where you do all the cooking and feed us all cheezburgers!
i'll volunteer for cleanup detail, though [after i surreptitiously wipe all the mayo off my cheezburger when you're not looking]
well, hipparchia, you can use mustard on both halves
if you'd rather. :) Please do try a little butter underneath it, though -- the richness is astounding.
I find I love the buns not greasy on the outside but soppy with dripping on the inside.
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
butter beats mayo any day of the week
i'll try that
promise me you'll save the cheap yellow mustard for fries
and we'll be ok. ; )
We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
1 John 4:18
fries
salt only, no condiments.
plain yellow mustard is good for stirring into potato salad, or baked beans, but i don't use it for much more than that.
i used to get frequent requests at pot lucks for my poop on chicken, chicken pieces slathered with grey poupon and then baked. the color of the mustard led my friends [with friends like these...] to coin that little gem.
On that theme, go here
http://cornmo.com/music/
And click the "play" button next to "The Baloney Song."
baloney
pan fry it real quick, just until it curls up into a bowl shape, plop a poached egg into the baloney 'bowl'. baloney in any other form is inedible.
cute song though.