Sat, 11/07/2009 - 1:47pm — hipparchia
... d-day is liveblogging the House voting on health care deform.
Weiner amendment? No. Kucinich amendment? No. Stupak and the Republicans otoh are sucking all the oxygen out of the room. Again.
Stupak's amendment is all about making abortion more unavailable than it already is, and the Republicans, of course, want to make all health care more unavailable than it already is.
You can't make this stuff up.
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some background
from yesterday.
the Republicans
have filled this with great deals for PhARMA, mandates for health insurance parasites, anti-abortion nonsense, and then make the Democrats beg to pass it. I really really really really hope this thing goes down in flames. I cannot understand why the problogs are still supporting this turkey. When people understand what it is, they will hate it and those that supported it.
you really have to wonder about progressives' fetish
for camels' noses.
it's not perfect, but hey! it's got a public option!
say what?
You're blaming Republicans for screwing up the Democrats Health Deform bill with bad provisions? Are you still in denial? The Democrats have control of this process and it's their bill alone. Jeez.
the democrats keep claiming
that they've incorporated a lot of republican ideas in the original bills. seems to me i remember reading that something like 160 changes requested by republicans were put into the senate help bill.
they're all out of control [sorry, couldn't resist]. but yeah, basically the democrats [or perhaps their corporate puppet masters] are in control.
Where does Stupak stand on healthcare otherwise?
Is he a Bluedog looking for an excuse to vote no, or is he a single payer liberal that happens to be a pro-life Catholic?
Oh and Hipparchia, check your PM. :o)
kind of mixed, i guess
fairly standard democrat, with blue dog leanings maybe
stupak on health care deform
a michigan blog doing some tealeaf reading on stupak
i have to admit, i'd never even heard of this guy until the abortion issue came up, so i'm basically clueless here.
Isn't Kaptur one of Stupak's co-sponsors?
Not a surprise given her record on abortion issues, but it's a nice reminder that just because a politician is good on one issue (economy, finance) doesn't mean they aren't totally wrong on another.
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt
that's the truth
this would all be a whole lot easier if only politicians would quit being real people! /snark [sort of]
Ian Welsh
on the willingness of "progressives" to support any bill no matter how bad it gets and the potential political ramifications.
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right -- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. " - Eleanor Roosevelt
the democratic party leadership is probably
more stupid [or insulated from reality] than suicidal, but i'd have to think on that a bit before deciding how much to disagree with ian's analysis.
Depends on your perspective
Granted, in both Northern secular districts and Bible Belt Protestant districts its basically pro-choice = liberal and pro-life = conservative. However, since many "New Deal" (for lack of a better word, I don't just mean seniors) Catholics will not under any circumstances vote for a pro-choice candidate, there are many districts across the country where the Democrats could win with a pro-life candidate with progressive economic, foreign policy or even gay marriage views. On the other hand, if the Dems run a pro-choice candidate there (no matter how "moderate" they are on other issues), they'd invariably lose to whatever pro-life corporate hack the GOP nominates.
I suppose this means the current majority party at any point in time also happens to be the current "big tent" party. Now the Democrats have a majority with a pro-life bloc just as the Republicans once had a majority for years with a pro-choice bloc (which has since all but vanished).
I dunno. Refresh my memory.
"will not under any circumstances vote for a pro-choice candidate": Didn't the "New Deal" Dems vote for Hillary in the primaries?
Democrats are inching away
from their most controversial policies; gun control - gone, and the right of privacy guided by a religious manifesto and I suspect in the future, Medicare.
We are apparently evolving. It's so archaic to hold on to old ideas. Heh
Not really
Look at the heavily populated Catholic regions of the US (Chicago, Boston, NY) and look how they vote. A lot of my family is pro-choice (Sicilian Catholics).
You might need to rethink your statement.
- “I do not think that word means what you think it means"
Le Bloc ou le mort!
process
check out this comment at Open Left
dday has an update
here.
So if the Stupak Amendment passes, do all the
Democrats that believe in abortion rights vote against the bill?
They would have to, wouldn't they? Anyone left of center that voted against upholding abortion rights would get primaried in 2010, probably with success.
Nothing is true; everything is permitted.
Anyone left of center that
Anyone left of center that voted against upholding abortion rights would get primaried in 2010, probably with success.
i'm thinking you're a bit too optimistic here.
I'm very afraid you're right
Democrats were willing to sacrifice the base to elect their candidate in 2008. They were willing to implement the largest wealth transfer in history to the banksters and risk the ire of just about every non-uber-wealthy potential voter in 2008 and 2009. They've committed to repeating the wealth transfer for insurance companies, who were apparently feeling a bit left out, and so far barely a single one of them has been willing to draw a line in the sand, not even at a weak-ass public option.
What on earth would lead anyone to expect that they'd balk at screwing over their pro-choice supporters? Far fewer in number and power than either of the above. Who's going to primary them? "Progressives"?
They're betting still, that we have nowhere else to go. At best they risk some campaign donations from us little people next year. Maybe a bit of risk of depressed voter turnout. But when their corporate sponsors are offering up an all-you-can-eat buffet as an alternative, who wants to bother with courting the little people?
I thought I couldn't get more disgusted with the New Democrats, but this freakin' amendment...
You don’t know me, son. So let me explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you’ll be awake, you’ll be facing me, and you’ll be armed.
-Malcolm Reynolds, “Serenity”
Well shit, why don't we primary them then?
I mean, if nobody else is going to do it...
Nothing is true; everything is permitted.
Well, part of the problem is that
there's a significant chance that Pelosi will run the vote in such a way that Reps who are left-of-center and at all vulnerable will be able to vote against the amendment, without actually allowing so many votes that the amendment is actually defeated. Not that Pelosi wants the amendment to pass, but if there's even a whisper that she'll be able to pass the piece-of-cr*p health reform legislation, she'll go along.
This is the kabuki portion of our program, and it's already been played out earlier, when Republicans, Blue Dogs and a variety of New Democrats let subsidies for birth control for low-income women get cut out of the stimulus.
(sorry, letting my bitterness get away with me). The point is, it's very difficult to primary any incumbent, much less one who can point to their vote on something like this amendment and say "see, I voted the way you wanted me to!".
You don’t know me, son. So let me explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you’ll be awake, you’ll be facing me, and you’ll be armed.
-Malcolm Reynolds, “Serenity”
Good thing the country's in an anti-incumbent mood.
If we don't take advantage of that the Republicans will.
Also, I hate kabuki.
Nothing is true; everything is permitted.
Damn.
Looks like it passed the House.
We really need to get started on that National Healthcare Party.
Nothing is true; everything is permitted.
Yeah I'm watching too
And now I feel sick to my stomach.
- “I do not think that word means what you think it means"
Le Bloc ou le mort!