Look! Over there! Contraception!
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Submitted by lambert on Thu, 02/16/2012 - 1:40pm
If Obama hadn't decided to suck up to the Bishops and then "compromise," the Rs wouldn't have decided to up the ante by being even more assholes then they already are.
Neither side in this conflict is telling us anything that we don't already know, and both sides are behaving exactly as we would expect them to do.
So you have to ask yourself: What don't both parties want you talking about?
My guess would be the retroactive legalization of literally thousands of felonies in Obama's mortgage "settlement" (still not "signed," whatever that means these days). But YMMV.

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And look how successful Obama and Friends have been.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/201...
What's not to like?
Sells plenty of tickets to the kabuki theatre!
Ms. Maddow is like, soooooooo not happy with you right now
You're exposing her!!!!
If she couldn't talk about contraceptives, what else would there be to talk about?
Corporate crimes?
Illegal war?
Suspension of civil liberties?
this attack
on women, however, is not just kabuki. Obama has flung the door wide open for even more horrendous moves against women, allowing the promulgation of the false equivalency between "religious freedom" which he has legitimized to the left, and women's rights to their own bodies and reproductive choices. I am starting to feel like I'm living in "The Handmaid's Tale". This is serious, even if they're using it as kabuki, and should not be trivialized.
That's what I mean
It's like kabuki where members of the audience actually die.
UPDATE Ack, but what I mean isn't evident from what I wrote. It reminds me of a Bush v. Obama thing: We all thought how awful it was that Bush faked the WMDs for his Iraq War. And it was. But it looks to me like Obama's false flag operations actually kill people. So which kind of kabuki is worse?
I've been saying this other places after thinking them here, but now you remind me to say them here. Sorry!
Kabuki was prostitution at
Kabuki was prostitution at first, as well as theater. As has been the case throughout history. Not too different from politics, except that prostitutes are more honest.
From the kabuki wiki: "In the wake of such success, rival troupes quickly formed, and kabuki was born as ensemble dance and drama performed by women—a form very different from its modern incarnation. Much of its appeal in this era was due to the ribald, suggestive themes featured by many troupes; this appeal was further augmented by the fact that the performers were often also available for prostitution."
what exactly is your problem with obama's compromise?
i mean, other than the fact than its a compromise.
when word first leaked out that the administration was going to compromise on this, i was howling too, until i saw what the substance of the "compromise" was and realized that it actually was a pretty good move. that's because it doesn't take away contraception coverage from anyone, and satisfies the bishops' objections--at least as those objections were originally phrased back before the compromise was announced.
and politically it has played out pretty well. it forced the bishops to switch positions from "we don't want to pay for birth control because it is against our religion" to "no one should be required to get for birth control coverage no matter who is paying for it", which is a lot less defensible position to take.
while i've gotten pretty sick obama's other compromises, i don't see the problem with this one. compromise per se isn't a bad thing. it can sometimes be a good thing if you get something in return. in this case, the president has taken all the air out of the other side while still preserving contraception coverage for everyone. what's the down side with that?
There was no reason to bring the issue up in the first place
Just like Social Security, the Catfood Commission, these are issues Obama didn't have to raise. He raises them, the Rs up the ante, then there's "compromise" and we're worse off than before.
Good to see somebody's been assigned to this, though. Now we know it's misdirection.
but he didn't raise the issue
his administration issued a regulation, which means publishing the proposed rule to be issued in the federal register. the right noticed and started to make hay over it.
they brought it up, Obama didn't do anything to raise the issue other than go through the usual process for making a rule that contraception must be covered,
what makes you think
that the insurance companies will go along and offer "free" contraception to women? That's never going to happen. And making women jump through more hoops for coverage that will never really be free further entrenches the priority of conciliating patriarchal religious structures over the rights of women. It's a compromise in name only. He has not taken the air out; he has given further legitimacy to the whole idea of religious freedom as applied to removing people's rights. This is in no way a good thing.
it saves money for the insurance companies
covering birth control is a lot cheaper than covering maternity costs, and additional dependents. that's one of the reasons why so many plans covered contraception already. it's also why opposition to the compromise is coming from catholic bishops and not the health insurance industry.
i am a lawyer who represents labor unions. part of that work involves going to meetings for union health plans, so I have met a lot of people in the health insurance industry. for years, they have been telling me about the cost-control benefits of covering contraception. in the early oughts, when the big news was the EEOC's ruling that plans that covered Viagra had to cover birth control to avoid violating the law against sex discrimination, an administrator of a health plan i represented told me that he couldn't believe any health plan was fighting birth control coverage just because there was such a financial benefit to the plan if they made sure their participants had easy access to birth control.
The problem with Obama's "compromise"
Violet's got it, here:
(emphasis added)
I think violet starts off with a faulty premise
The principle that birth control pills are a normal part of women’s healthcare was established many years ago. The principle that refusal to cover such normal healthcare constitutes sexist discrimination was established many years ago.
that's not quite true. the EEOC ruling, later upheld by courts, was that if is sex discrimination for a health insurer to cover viagra but not birth control. to my knowledge there has never been a ruling that not covering birth control itself is sex discrimination.
The principle that “religious liberty” does not provide an exemption from laws governing nondiscrimination in the public square was established many years ago.
also not quite true. the civil rights act of 1964 (which created the EEOC, and still governs most discrimination claims in this country, including sex discrimination), contains an exemptions for religious organizations. so they are allowed to discriminate on the basis of sex. that's been in the law for almost a half century.
once you take away those two premises, violet's entire argument pretty much falls apart. he didn't have the option of saying to the bishops that they already had to cover contraception under existing federal law because that wasn't true (so long as they didn't also cover viagra). the compromise was effective because it didn't give up anything on coverage and satisfied what the bishops originally claimed they wanted (to not pay for contraception). in my mind, that's a world of difference from most of the compromises that have come out of this administration in that this time his policy (making sure that women have access to contraception) is just as effective under the compromise than it is without it.
No, Violet's right
The EEOC decision was not about Viagra (although I can see how that became the popular interpretation, it makes for a much better headline). The EEOC ruled that an employer's refusal to cover contraception violated both the Pregnancy Discrimination Act and Title VII:
In other words, if you provide coverage for prevention of other medical conditions, then you have to provide coverage for contraception under the PDA.
Viagra is mentioned in a footnote (fn14), but only in response to the employer's allegation that they could exclude contraception because they never covered other preventative health care, they only covered where "there is something abnormal about [the employee's] mental or physical health." The EEOC most certainly did not rule that if an insurer covers Viagra it has to cover prescription contraception.
Addressing Title VII, the EEOC said:
Further, the Title VII exemption for religious institutions applies only to religion itself. That is, a religious institution can hire only members of its own religion, without running afoul of Title VII's bar to discrimination based on religion. It is not immunity from the other types of prohibited discrimination included in Title VII:
From the EEOC:
The Courts of Appeal have long recognized a "ministerial" exception to Title VII anti-discrimination requirements -- because of the conflict between Title VII and the First Amendment's protections -- in cases that "concern[] government interference with an internal church decision that affects the faith and mission of the church itself." In a very recent case, Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (No. 10-553), the Supreme Court affirmed the "ministerial" exception.
That exception -- allowing religious institutions to discriminate on the basis of sex (or other Title VII provisions) in choosing their ministers (interpreted broadly) -- is what allows the Catholic Church and most other religions to employ only men as their religious officials. Note that this is an exception. Neither Title VII nor the First Amendment gives religious institutions a free pass on sex discrimination. In Hosanna-Tabor, the Court reiterated the rule that outside decisions of whom a religious organization can employ as its leaders, religious institutions must follow laws of general applicability (ie, the famous peyote case):
(p15)
IOW, it's simply not true that churches "are allowed to discriminate on the basis of sex. that's been in the law for almost a half century."
The exemption of abortion from any mandatory coverage or federal-funding provisions is long standing law. However, the increasingly successful drive to frame birth control as somehow a matter of religious conscience and not law is a new and substantial (and horrifying) departure from settled law and settled principles. Violet is correct that Obama was not legally required to make his compromise. I'm sure he was depending on (mostly correctly, as it turns out) his endless hordes of fans to spin whatever he did as a great victory, regardless of reality.
That's a great post, V
I'm bookmarking it, because its not the first time I've seen upyurnoz's argument in favor of this crap.
No, Violet's right
oops, double post.
There are numerous problems with this compromise
Primarily, privacy. When the employers had no say over the coverage offered by the insurance company, your privacy was assured. But since some employer don't have to offer the same blanket coverage, no the employer will know who is using BC or not. And if your employer objects to it, well that puts your job at risk. Or if your employer feels that your non-use of BC puts you at a higher risk for pregnancy, and all the attendant costs to an employer that causes, puts your job at risk.
Second, the optics. The president has yielded ground, ground he didn't have to yield. I got into a screaming match with my boss over the initial decision, defending Obama, something I am always loathe to do, and finally got my boss to concede that this decision doesn't mean that Obama can interfere with what a chirch teaches(which is how this was being spun to the FoxNewsers), and after all my work on that, the next day he fucking caves, disproving my point that he was right in the first place. Because he was. 98% of sexually active Catholic women use contraception, the bishops have no moral authority on this issue, a large majority of the population supports the use of contraception, and he fucking caved! Why? In an attempt to look "bipartisan" and "reasonable" to the most partisan and unreasonable of shitheads? Because he is really uncomfortable with women's sexuality(This is my vote, see repeated references to protecting daughters' purity with violence)?
His motives being impossible to determine, his actions are all we can judge. And his actions here were shitty. He bargained away women's right to bodily autonomy, AGAIN, for an ephemeral gain.
the insurance industry
has a long history of charging women more. They do not have a long history of giving away services for free, even if it's in their best interest. Regardless, making women jump through hoops for something that is their right to have is not a distraction, not a small issue, especially when the government is making a concession without consultation with the people who will be affected by it. The administration is caving to the very people who will never be affected by it.
what hoop are you talking about?
I agree that the insurance industry has a history of charging women more for various services. but when it comes to birth control, for the past decade most of the industry has included coverage for birth control. as I noted above, the insurance industry is not the ones who are protesting this compromise, even though the compromise was for insurance companies to pay for the coverage rather than religious employers. in any other context, they would have screamed bloody murder, but not this time because this is what they want to do so they can increase their bottom line. the only thing that was stopping them was that there was a small market for policies without coverage.
and what is this extra hoop you're referring to? the compromise doesn't mention anything extra that women have to do. I think you're just assuming that women will have to fill out some paperwork to opt-in to coverage. but it's more likely that religious employers will have to do the paperwork to opt-out, as the default rule is still that employers pay for contraception coverage.
as for "not consulting with the people who will affected by it", what exactly did you want? a referendum of women who get health insurance through a catholic employer to be held before the president announces his compromise publicly? you realize that has never been done for any policy in American politics before. (seniors were "not consulted" about social security when it was first proposed). it seems like you're the one who wants to throw up extra hoops, and not very realistic ones at that.
did you see that all-male panel
of "experts" called by Issa on the issue of contraception? A politician can choose with whom he/she wants to consult. Giving way to the opinions of bishops without talking with people involved in women's healthcare is certainly not a value-free exercise. I'm not talking referendum with all available women who'd be impacted by this.
Perhaps I am totally misinformed, but I thought the whole point of this was so that the organizations in question would NOT pay for coverage for women; they'd have to go through the insurance companies.
Edited to add, from a CNN article:
"Under the new plan announced by Obama, religiously affiliated universities and hospitals will not be forced to offer contraception coverage to their employees. Insurers will be required, however, to offer complete coverage free of charge to any women who work at such institutions. Women who work at churches, though, will have no guarantee of such contraception coverage -- a continuation of current law."
Really ticks me off that controlling women's sexuality gets
more attention from Obama than stopping wars with their massive killings.
People whose ethics and/or religious beliefs are against such killings don't get any special consideration.
Just those who want to control women's lives and sexuality.
Yep
Exactly so.
and he always refers to his own faith
When justifying such incursions. Whereas there's never any mention of the morality of killing so many people, including bystanders and people who show up to care for the wounded.
Even TINS gets this
Quoted by Riverdaughter:
At some point, as these issues keep blowing up, people figure out Obama doesn't just have butterfingers. The damage to what used to be the base isn't any more accidental than a drone strike. Even TINS, who's drunk deep of the Kool-Aid, gets this. Of course, there are always some hold outs prepared to die in the last ditch, bless their hearts....