"Just when I thought I was in... they push me back out ..."

it's all about the fracking tribalism anyway.

I thought you understood that.

Not to mention Islam. I notice -- shocked, shocked I am -- the "faith-based" merchandise is entirely Christian. As has been, as far as i can tell, both Bush's "faith-based initiative" and Obama's.

That's the only thing I see out there.

What do I know, though? I never supported Edwards and never trusted the integrity of DailyKos (and DailyKos was exactly what I was talking about then). Yeah, that's a cheap shot but the batting average from folks who say I'm stupid and/or doing wrong isn't so good. Again, not that I am perfect, its just disappointing to see so many acting as if they are infallible and not caring to listen to others' reasoning.

NOTE: If you follow the link to the Black Ink Review you'll note that I'm familiar with "dominionists" and have been discussing it for years.

From what I can tell, the Obama campaign's letter promises a "Pro-Israel, Pro-Obama" button, so Jews are covered. But while they claim that the items are good for any faith, there's no specific shout out to any non-Christian, non-Jew. As I pointed out in the other thread, there's no "Atheists for Obama" or "Pro-Allah, Pro-Obama" or "Buddhists for Barry." Catholic and Jews get their own buttons, the rest of us not so much.

Because capitalism is America's true religion...

...for the rest of us

...but maybe that's just snark. With CNN, who knows?

It's another of Obama's campaign follies.

Attacking Republicans would secure nearly all Democrats and a majority of independents. Enough to win the election.

Holding back in hopes of attracting Republicans, as he did in the primaries, and pandering to fundies is a loser tactic.

That's why it's only available, at the current time, in Christian-flavor.

Really, who cares? I'm not mad at 'em. His playing the "faith-based" community like a cheap fiddle. The entire O'Movement is bought and sold. The whole thing was a marketing ploy from the very beginning.

Are there any Obama underwear yet available? You know, with "Time for a Change" posted across the back?

Atheists have faith that God does not exist. If you want to get them really riled, get up in their face and yell, "prove it! prove it!" But Atheism is really no different than any other faith-based approach, such as...

Nancyism - Nancyites have faith that the ends always justify the means and that when the half light messiah arrives everyone will forget every last friggin' thing the good Lord Nancy ever promised but didn't deliver - which is just about Everything (a transcendent concept if ever there was one). Their main cathedral is known as the "K Street Vatican and ATM."

Donnacrucianism - Donnacrucians have faith that their Good Lord Donna, affectionately known as 'My-Mama', made all the rules and those rules are never meant to be broken. Fascinatingly, those rules change according to circumstances and the only one who actually knows what they are at any one time is My-Mama herself who spreads her gospel through special prayer lunches held behind closed doors. Sinners who betray My-Mama are cast out with a reference to Donnacrucian scripture, "You will be cast out and doomed to hell*, just like Chelsea's-Mama."

And then there are the followers of Deanaism - those quaint folk known for their transcendent ecstatic experiences called 'talking in screams.' They say they wish to convert people in "all the 50 states," yet they are usually found cloistered only in the outback territories known as "the red caucus states." They can be seen wearing traditional garb from the Kenwood region of Chicago, traveling around in horse-drawn conveyances that utilize the traditional axel and rod.

All three of these faiths, btw, have already applied and been approved for assistance under the Obama Administration's Faith Based Initiative. The Obama Administration itself, is a faith-based initiative, as well. In computer programming that is what is known as an endless loop. It is usually considered a bug.

(* Hell usually refers to the penance of campaigning for Donnacrucian Pope Obama.)

Tired and untrue.

if you've heard it many times. Not so much if you haven't :)

But certainly true. An atheist is someone who denies the existence of a deity. In the absence of incontrovertible proof (which to my knowledge does currently remain absent), that denial takes the form of belief. Belief is opinion, conviction, confidence, trust; in other words, faith.

I am not an atheist, so I don't actually know what it feels like to be one. I have done a great deal of work in a field of art + mathematics that leaves me little doubt that there is some consciousness out there that's remarkably well organized and mind-bogglingly deep. Plus possesses an aesthetic that takes my breath away every time. So, while I don't believe in a deity as such, I believe - I have faith - that something far greater than we mere humans does exist, even if it's just called consciousness.

What Would Jesus Buy?

Strikes me as a meme-swap. McSame steals "change" and "feminism" and we'll take the religion for $200, Pat. Not exactly a fair trade. And neither side is doing it well.

I actually laughed about some of that heart-breaking Dem behavior! Thanks.

That you can't prove a negative?

"Believers" and "faith" are specifically Christian and even specifically Protestant

That is the language used when Christian groups are trying to be inclusive. (Ecumenical? I'm not really sure what that word means.) But most Jews, even (especially?) very religious (we usually say "observant" or something like that) Jews, don't use the language of "faith" or "belief" to describe what we do/think/are. So this language is kind of a tip-off.

I won't deny that one can find Jewish sites (or groups, or people) using "faith" and "belief". That wasn't my point. "There are some" != the language we (especially in the more observant communities) use.

Plus, probably a large percentage of American Jews identify as Jewish only in a cultural way.

I don't really want to sidetrack this into a discussion of how the American Jewish community (or communities) define(s) it/themselves. Just trying to say that to an awful lot of us, reachout that uses the words "faith" and "belief" comes across as Christian-centric.

I'll also refer to the very good discussion on a related point that took place on this TalkLeft post.

Steve M:

Jews like myself traditionally vote Democratic because our cultural notions of "social justice" fit very nicely with the Democratic platform. But somehow, the Democrats have gotten these votes without running around waving a Torah. There's religious outreach and then there's something less acceptable.

chrisvee, further down:

Catholics can be appealed on social justice and anti-war issues as well. As can other religious groups. This over 'faith outreach' is not necessary IMO and frankly sets a bad example. We don't need to adopt the Republican playbook.

then I replied:

Not only is it not necessary
I'd find it offensive if a politician did try to reach out to me by "waving the Torah" (as Steve said).

I'd find it offensive in kind of the same way I'd find it offensive if a politician tried to "reach out" to me by complimenting my appearance (but more so). It's something personal and that just doesn't belong in that context at all, and the politician is just not a person who should be going there...

I have to think that there are a lot of Christians who feel the same way, since I've worked with some of them in the course of my anti-hunger activism.

Just to clarify, I'm fairly observant, kind of on the Modern Orthodox level although I hate those labels.

we don't have a Jewish "faith" or belong to a Jewish "faith" -- our religion is Jewish. "Faith" is not a general term, but one that is what people have--they have faith in God or Jesus or other people or whatever.

We're born Jewish, and don't have to "believe" or practice or anything.

ohio. My first comment here was an effort to inject some levity, as Truth Partisan thankfully recognized and appreciated. My response to vastleft was when I first grok'ed I'd inadvertently touched a nerve I hadn't realized existed.

I also mentioned my experience of something wondrous and exquisite that elicited in me a feeling one could call faith. I don't mind calling it that myself, though I wouldn't also mind not calling it anything at all. My proof as it were, exists as a body of work which has no purpose beyond that which is self-evident or not to whomever may encounter it. Those who see the same evidence as I frequently reward me by wishing to own a piece of it for themselves. Those who don't simply move along. I claim no position, so what exactly is there to be bullshit? Though please feel free to call it what you will, because bullshit it may well be. Frankly, I'll never really know. But I have great faith that you will. And no, I have no proof of that unless you provide it yourself.