Why were Dean and other prominent (Obama-supporting) Democrats pushing so hard to make Hillary quit?
Obamaniac CW
is that Hillary is divisive and needs to quit because even though she is "doomed" to lose, she will damage Obama enough in the remaining contests to give McCain the victory in November.
But that's not the reason for the WWTSBQ meme. Hillary is hardly being rough on Obama, despite what his supporters say.
Hillary is being "divisive" because she won't step aside so that Obama can unify us.
Dean and the DNC screwed up by trying to pull a power-play on Florida and Michigan. While centralized control over the primary/caucus scheduling is a worthy goal, the DNC Rules Committee wanted to send a message not only to Florida and Michigan, but to all the other states that the DNC was in control.
So they decreed that those two states would be stripped of all their delegates. The nuclear option.
They didn't think it would really matter, because every contest has been a blow-out since 1972. So the votes of those delegates wouldn't matter, and they could later be seated (after the nomination was complete) and everyone would be happy.
But this campaign isn't a blow-out, it's neck and neck. Even worse, the two pariah states both went heavily for Hillary, who is currently trailing.
If the DNC reverses itself and allows FL/MI back in, it looks like cheating to the Obama supporters. If they don't let FL/MI back in, it looks like cheating to Hillary's supporters, and it's also undemocratic.
But if Hillary were to quit now, the remaining contests wouldn't matter, and Obama would be running unopposed. Then he could generously agree to seat the FL/MI delegations so they could participate in electing him unanimously.
Unity ponies for everybody!
But Hillary wouldn't play nice like a good girl.
So now Dean and the DNC are screwed.
Unfortunately, so are the rest of us Democrats.
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How it works
Adult tells child if they cut in line for dessert, they're not going to get any ice cream.
Child cuts in line.
Child gets no ice cream.
Child throws tantrum.
Nowadays they may even post about it on their web site.
"If one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope." - Bill Clinton
“They see us from afar, they come to a speech, they watch us on television. And they vote. And that is part of the process. An important part.” - Hillary Clinton
Another outbreak...
Sigh.
Translation
"But I want ice creeeeeam!"
"If one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope." - Bill Clinton
“They see us from afar, they come to a speech, they watch us on television. And they vote. And that is part of the process. An important part.” - Hillary Clinton
It's more like:
Child cuts in line
Parent shoots child dead
That will teach them!
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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers
Ribo: Is that the best you've got?
How can you possibly compare a misbehaving child to the voters of two large, key states?
And since when is the right to vote for your choice of candidate for President of the United States a "treat" or privilege?
BTW - typically the penalty for line-cutting is getting sent to the back of the line, which would be accomplished by June revotes.
x
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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers
Re: Ribo: Is that the best you've got?
When dealing with the camp who gave us "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is", it's necessary to insist on simplicity.
If my metaphor offends your sense of dignity, so be it. It's an exact description of what the MI and FL leadership did. And they should receive the full punishment they were promised (with - as people here seem to need constant reminding - Hillary's heartfelt blessing) in the interest of keeping all the kids from rushing the ice cream table at once at the next birthday party.
The people they were supposed to get ice cream for certainly have a right to be pissed off. They should stop being friends with them and choose someone else to get the ice cream the next time.
And I'm sure that later in the afternoon when Obama is opening his presents, that old softie Dean will say to MI and FL "I hope you've learned a lesson" and give them a small cup of whatever flavor is left over.
"If one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope." - Bill Clinton
“They see us from afar, they come to a speech, they watch us on television. And they vote. And that is part of the process. An important part.” - Hillary Clinton
You can't even help yourself
I am beginning to believe you are a ratfucker, you can't help, but throw out more Clinton bashing BS, and I though your team was the team that "didn't want to refight the fights of the 90's".
as people here seem to need constant reminding - Hillary’s heartfelt blessing
No, you seem to keep forgetting that this is not true. Clinton spoke out against the harsh punishment(while Obama's supporters kept trying to push through the advancement, until Obama supported the DNC decision, then they stopped), and that was why she kept her name on the ballot, she did not support stripping them of their delegates, though she agreed to abide by the DNC rules about not campaigning, something Obama didn't do.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
what myiq2xu said--Obama wants to stall
and then get them all.
Meanwhile, he should be proving he can win big states like PA-- and Indiana, where we're seeing the effect of Wright, etc. -- http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...
-- Obama Speech Fails to Assuage White Indiana Voters
Voting in a political
Voting in a political party's nomination process is not a right. It is, in fact, a privilege that the party leadership can deny to states that break the party's rules.
if you're registered as a party member, it is a right.
That's why we have primaries. If the national party leadership wants to punish people, it should punish only those lawmakers who made it happen--not the voters.
DMD76: And it's our privilege
to not support their decisions.
But keep making that argument. Keep telling Democrats that voting for their party's nominee is a privilege.
John McCain will laugh all the way to the White House.
x
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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers
myiq2xu, you seem to be
myiq2xu, you seem to be confused about rights and privileges. You have the right to not support the party's decision. As I understand your latest comment, I am correct when I say that state delegations don't have the right to vote in the Democratic nomination process. This is, however, an inconvenient truth, so we should instead pretend that they do. Also, as I remember it, the people of FL and MI voted and selected delegates.
amberglow, apparently, the DNC can take that "right" away from some states's delegations, so it is much more like a privilege than a right.
trolls
What is Obama afraid of? He should be interested in what is the decision of the people, and that he is capable of gaining their support. Apparently Obama doesn't believe enough in himself and his message to the extent that he will take away other's votes.
But I don't believe for a second what some commenters are saying. These are probably trolls, here to stir up devision and hatred to split the Democrats. Go away, trolls. Democrats believe everyone's vote should be counted.
Re: trolls
The decision of the people who have voted in Democratic primaries [which, thanks to Limbaugh, isn't synonymous with "Democrats"] is that Obama should be the nominee.
It's Hillary - who wants to win the nomination by having that mandate ignored by the superdelegates (which, I freely admit, they are procedurally entitled to do) - who doesn't care what the people think.
But you like Hillary and hate Obama. So keep "don't believing" in the facts when they're inconvenient.
"If one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope." - Bill Clinton
“They see us from afar, they come to a speech, they watch us on television. And they vote. And that is part of the process. An important part.” - Hillary Clinton
but they can't not allow voting in primaries--that's
the point (or not allow primaries altogether)--the DNC and RNC cannot cancel a state's primary, nor can they forbid a state or its residents who are party members from voting nor forbid a state from holding primaries--even if they say the votes won't count, then or later. The right to actually vote in a party primary if you are a member of that party is not at all deniable by national parties--that's why the DNC had to threaten punishment (only to these 2 states--when others jumped the line too, btw, which is an important point in all this) and couldn't simply stop the primary entirely.
The primaries in MI and FL and individuals actually voting in them were never in any doubt at all no matter what--it's only the national recognition and allocation that was, and is, being disputed.
States, voters in those states, and state govts have far faar more power than the national parties in terms of individuals voting. It's why we have 50 diff State procedures, pretty much--the DNC actually doesn't have the power to force any state to do something one way or another--they can only punish and threaten afterwards.
Obamamania, catch it!
So now we have our resident Obama trolls pushing the idea that Florida and Michigan voters who complain about their votes not counting are little kids. Why should votes count in a democracy?
maybe they value "dems for a day" voting over
actual FL Democrats coming out in large numbers even without campaigning?
[which, thanks to Limbaugh,
Obama pushed the Dem for a Day idea first, so blame him.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
I think it's hilarious
that the Obama supporters keep claiming that huge numbers of people (all Obama supporters) sat out both primaries, even though there were record turnouts.
"Yes the turnout was huge, but it would have been huger!"
The primaries were treated as official by the state governments and the state parties. The results are official as far as any other races or issues that were on the ballots.
x
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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers
Well, myiq2xu
Everything I've seen shows that turnout in MI was depressed. But once again, this solution was easily rectified, if only the Golden One had supported it.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
Institutionalized Disenfranchisement
Let's cut the crap. That's what this is. If people didn't think the elections were valid, we could have had revotes. Obama chose not to do that.
Re: Institutionalized Disenfranchisement
"If people didn’t think the elections were valid, we could have had revotes."
What would be the point?
"Senior Hillary adviser Harold Ickes... confirmed that the Hillary campaign could still try to woo super-dels even if she lost the popular vote, with Michigan and Florida counted."
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm...
To borrow a phrase from Robert Christgau [I know what a sensitive issue plagiarism is to Hillary]: you people are so full of shit that Port-O-San ought to name a model after you.
You whine and bitch about Obama "disenfranchising" MI/FL. But the second it becomes necessary, you'll flush the popular vote down the toilet so the superdelegates can install someone "electable".
As if the radioactive waste dump that is the Clinton legacy wouldn't inflame otherwise dispirited Republican voters to shower McCain with dollars and votes.
As if the black voters Hillary spat on when they didn't properly appreciate all she was doing for them would just smile and shrug and vote for her anyway.
I'll thank you all for this much. You've shown me that that the rancor and self-delusion of the Bush loyalists can be found on either side of the aisle.
"If one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope." - Bill Clinton
“They see us from afar, they come to a speech, they watch us on television. And they vote. And that is part of the process. An important part.” - Hillary Clinton
You are braindead sometime
What would be the point?
How about legitimacy for starters.
so the superdelegates can install someone “electable”.
How dare she follow the RULZ!!
As if the black voters Hillary spat on
Can you provide me with one example when Clinton treated Obama's supporters with the blatant disregard that Obama has treated Clinton's supporters?
*crickets*
And about your signature, there is only one candidate in this race that has encouraged me to hope and think, and it is the one candidate who is supported by the speaker of that quote.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
Thank you for commenting,
Thank you for commenting, ribo. Your comment is important to us. Please do not hesitate to comment again.
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Counting all votes is now cheating
Lovely. So copying the GOP playbook is now how we embody "unity" (i.e. triangulation)? What next?
It's ridiculous that Obama would be granted any MI delegates, let alone all the "uncommitted," since he willingly took his name off the ballot. He should pay for it rather than being rewarded out of fear what the misinformed/delusional think.
Simple answers to simple questions
So copying the GOP playbook is now how we embody “unity”?
Yes.
Leveraging The Clenis
and hatred of the Clintons for fun and profit has a whole chapter to itself.
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
"braindead" headlines
Try to summarize the point of the comment in the headline. It's a good exercise that promotes clear thinking and better rhetoric. Just sayin.
Agreed on the sig, by the way. What I hear in Hillary is a message of hope through hard work and never giving up. What I hear in Obama is a message of "hope" through one person's charisma, and a message of "change" and "transformation" that's totally belied by the campaign he's actually running.
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh!
.....nice right hand to the jaw.
Now hit 'em with the left! Something like:
A. Citizen
Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.
Yes, sir!!
I will try harder, O High and Mighty Master of Corrente!!
:P
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
Of all the slime
the GOP threw at Bill and Hillary, racism was never part of it.
"As if the black voters Hillary spat on"
Give me an example. One black voter.
The racism accusation is the dirtiest low-blow I've seen since the "Willie Horton" ad.
Obama should be ashamed of himself.
He's not worthy.
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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers
Re: Of All The Slime
Hillary fundraising chair Geraldine Ferraro : "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position."
Spits on all the black voters, I'd say. And judging from the results in Mississippi, they weren't too happy about it.
Oh, but of course, Hillary didn't say that. Just stood back and watched to see how it played.
What an inspiring figure she is to the young white women of America.
"If one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope." - Bill Clinton
“They see us from afar, they come to a speech, they watch us on television. And they vote. And that is part of the process. An important part.” - Hillary Clinton
Yo! Ribo!
A. Citizen
Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.
I apologize
The rumor about McCain fathering a child with a black prostitute was worse.
Lee Atwater - Willie Horton
Karl Rove - McCain's illegimate child
Barack Obama - The Clintons are racists
Some company.
x
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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers
ratfucker troll
Aeryl, ya beat me to it. I had to go log in and then put in the wrong password, blah blah. Ratfucker trolls indeed.
On the ratfucker posting the other day, ribo and dmd sure were sensitive that they might perhaps be what the author (lambert? vastleft? sorry, I forgot) were alluding to. And boy were they up in arms about it.
Methinks they did protest too much.
I often attempt to give ribo some benefit of the doubt but with that ice cream post? Over. No more. He's a ratfucker. And nobody should waste one byte arguing with him.
Although I'm sure the administrator thanks ratfucker ribo for his post. It means a lot to us here at Correntewire. Hope to see you again!
Re: Ratfucker Troll
Whatever keeps you from having to think about the speech Obama will give when accepting the nomination at the Convention. It's all good.
Cheers.
"If one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope." - Bill Clinton
“They see us from afar, they come to a speech, they watch us on television. And they vote. And that is part of the process. An important part.” - Hillary Clinton
Cheers!
Thanks for stopping by! Have a nice day!
While I think the main issue
has always been this--
--this is a problem:
Half of this is correct. "Other prominent (Obama supporting) Democrats" like Leahy wondering out loud WWTSBQ
for the sake of party unity.
However lumping Dean in there is a fallacy. It's one of the many storylines people hate to let go. So Dean not jumping in immediately = Dean supports Obama.
Dean never pushed Hillary to quit because he was the candidate everyone loved to hate in 2004:
Now unless someone has video of Howard saying he hearts Obama, leave him out of that clique.
Re: While I think the main issue
Are you actually saying that some pro-Hillary comments here might not be 100% factually accurate and objective?
Get outta here.
"If one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope." - Bill Clinton
“They see us from afar, they come to a speech, they watch us on television. And they vote. And that is part of the process. An important part.” - Hillary Clinton
Entire Quote
For some context, here is the quote.
"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept"
Are you saying that much of Obama's support is not b/c he's black(contradicting claims by his own supporters, John Kerry and Andrew Sullivan)? Part of the reason I initially supported him, outside of his massive inspirational skillz(when I gushed about him after his speech in 04, my black friends told me I thought it was so good, b/c I've never been to a black church, and they thought it was rather mediocre).
Much of Obama's support comes from black people(which I have no problem with, unlike other people who think it makes me stupid that I am a woman who supports a woman, and I get accused of "Vagina Voting"), and whites, who are caught up in the concept of being "post-racial". He also has many supporters who have analytically decided he was a better candidate. But if you took away his "post-racial" support, Obama would not be leading in this contest right now. So I don't see how anyone can deny the actual truth of Ferraro's words, despite her poor phrasing.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
Something's happening here
It's more like
All other parents proceed to shoot each other's children, then each other.
The Fourth Branch of government gets the ice cream.
No Hell below us
Above us, only sky
No Hell below us
Above us, only sky
I await the proof that
I await the proof that I'm a ratfucker with bated breath, Imelda.
By the way, nice nick. That Marcos regime was fucking hilarious.
dmd, awful sensitive
Since you weren't even named by anyone as a potential ratfucker, why are you so sensitive?
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
Re: "Hillary fundraising chair Geraldine Ferraro"
Ha ha ha!
That's your big counterpunch?
Willie Horton/McCain's illegitimate child = Geraldine Ferraro?
What are they feeding trolls these days?
BTW - Geraldine was not Hillary's "fundraising chair."
Massive lame!
x
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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers
Re: I await the proof that I’m a ratfucker
Who needs to prove anything?
Can you prove you're not a ratfucker?
I await that proof.
x
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“I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat.” - Will Rogers
being misguided doth not a troll make
However, since he dropped the hostility to sign on to the Responsible Plan, I don't think he's a troll, imelda. Plus, he likes gardening.
Our herpetic friend, ribo, however...
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Aeryl, lay off
and see above commment at "misguided."
I had a hard time disentangling that comment, so I could see how others could.
[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Sorry dmd
And thanks Lambert for setting me straight.
Regarding the Marcos regime, say what you will, his wife did great things for shoe-loving peoples everywhere.
Aww, She's Emulating Obama
Reagan cozied up to Marcos, isn't emulating Reagan part of the Unity
Plan. You should be happy she's jumped on board.
Bill Clinton for First Dude!!!
He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
- Sir William Drummond
it's a shoe thing, people
not a dictator thing.
I don't even own that many pairs. The nic is more 'aspirational' than anything. Like aspirational voting - you know, I'm a working class stiff but I vote Republican because I want to be like all those country-club affluent types who vote Republican.
Sorry, very o/t. Please don't yell at me like BTD does at TalkLeft.
That’s your coup de
That's your coup de grâce, myiq2xu? Asking for a negative proof? I'm afraid I'm no match for your rapier wit.