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How did this happen?

DCblogger's picture

Netroots Nation will be in Arizona in 2015, but Kos will not be in attendance and Daily Kos will not be supporting the conference. I would love to know how this happened. When I agree with Markos Moulitsos, you know it is serious.

I would love to know the back story on this one. I predict the conference will be a bust. Who wants to go to Arizona? No Latino will feel safe at such a conference and as for the rest of us, why would we go?

If someone wanted to sabotage Netroots in time 2016, this was a good way to do it. Other conferences will fill the vacum.

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Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

"unhappy with" the Democratic Party offerings (when it came to NN political representatives/attendees) this year.

The only one who got a favorable reception was Warren.

Biden must have represented the Administration.

Someone commented that Marcos doesn't have anything to do with NN, anymore.

(Sounded as though he's sold his interest, or whatever it's called, some time ago.)

And, it sounds as though the NN attendance was way down this year.

Apparently, Marcos' heavy-handed "decrees" over the candidates in the upcoming 2016 elections, are not going over well, to say the least.

The midterms and 2016 will truly be fascinating to watch. A recent Charles Pierce piece mentions this schism.

I'm almost wondering if the Party will finally implode.

Time will tell . . .

[Please excuse typos/syntax.]

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

that the recent Netroots Nation conference sorta highlighted the differences between the populist versus corporatist "schools" (for lack of a better word) in the Democratic Party.

I already see these fissures in the (so-called) progressive blogosphere.

And, as I said, I "think" that some major blow up may be in the making at DKos--it's in the air, so to speak. I have no link that I can provide for this--it's just my impression.

So many progressive bloggers are unhappy with PBO's DLC/Third Way/No Labels/New Dem Administration, that it is difficult for me to imagine that they will get behind another one.

Now, that's just my opinion from all that I read [somewhat regularly] at several "left-leaning" blogs.

Could be wrong--it wouldn't be the first time!

BTW, I'm the one who says that the midterms and 2016 will be fascinating to watch--not Pierce.

;-)

Today's Lesson

By Charles P. Pierce 7/18/2014 at 11:55 AM
Charlie Pierce

DETROIT -- If you ignored the signs, and the buttons, and the plastic straw hats, and the people in every corner of the ballroom bleeding from the teeth at the simple possibility of it, there was no indication that anyone at the Netroots Nation hootenanny was entertaining the notion that Senator Elizabeth Warren might be running for president of anything. In contrast to Ramblin' Joe Biden's sprawling address yesterday -- which, admittedly, had its own peculiar charms -- the Senator Professor was brisk and brief and bristling. The speech ran as though it were a class at Harvard Law, bounded at either end by bells. But its pith did not undermine its passion.

The Senator Professor has been sharpening her message again. The game is rigged, and, as she says, "We can whimper. We can whine. Or we can fight back."

Most significantly, the speech now contains a pointed passage on international trade, in which deals like NAFTA and the upcoming TPP deal are framed as yet another way the dice are loaded, and another example of there not being any pea under any of the shells. "These trade deals," she said, "are done in secret so big corporations can do their dirty work behind closed doors, so they can have their insider access while worker's rights and environmental regulations are gutted. You know, I've actually had people who support these trade deals come up to me and say that they have to be done in secret because, if they weren't, the people would be opposed. To me, if people would be opposed, then we shouldn't do the trade deals."

Even if she doesn't run, and I still think the chances she will are almost nil, this is a shot directly across the bow of the putative Democratic frontrunner. There is nothing more central to the history of the last President Clinton than the Eisenhower-lite economics with which he triangulated himself, whether that's repealing Glass-Steagall, signing the Commodities Futures Modernization Act as he went out the door, or shepherding NAFTA through Congress and fast-shuffling it past the general population.

There is no way for Hillary Clinton to detach herself from that legacy even if she wanted to, and it's not clear at all that she wants to. If Warren doesn't run, she nonetheless has an obvious constituency that is growing, and to which whoever the Democratic nominee is must respond.

(It is also to be noted that Warren was cagey enough not to mention the TPP specifically, but that her condemnation was general, and it was limited to the secrecy within which the deals are struck. Thus are options kept open. She's learning.)

There is no question that Warren is one of the few politicians out there -- Rand Paul may be another -- who has a clearly defined base of national support. The Clinton campaign already seems like one that is willing to settle for a kind of amorphous and tacit approval; there's a sense of automatic pilot to the whole effort at the moment. The rest of the Republicans appear to be mystified as to how to tame the crazoids while not losing their support, and the opposition to Clinton among the Democrats depends on where Martin O'Malley is speaking today. (And, if he was smart, that would be here.) The field is still unformed, for which we can all thank god, it being 2014 and all.

But there is a clarity around Warren that doesn't exist elsewhere. In fact, her message is so clear and sharp that I continue to think it better suits her in the Senate, and as a voice from the outside that pushes and prods and fights back. Like I said, I don't think she's going to run. Which doesn't mean she can't give campaign speeches.

Then again, she was signing books at 2:45 on Friday. People were lining up to buy them before noon.

Submitted by lambert on

Warren says a lot. A lot of what she says needs to be said. It seems to be a peculiarity of the Democratic left (I know, I know) that they confuse saying with doing. Perhaps this is from when that particular cohort coalesced in 2003 - 2004. "Controlling the discourse" is surely necessary but they seem to think it's sufficient, the magic word being "performative," words that change realtity (like "I do"). Needless to say, none of Warren's words are performative.

I wonder if Zephyr Teachout was there? (She's from that cohort.) That would give a good read on where the cattle are being stampeded to.

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

dude Pierce seems to think he knows, that's for sure. But I have no clue.

It is undeniable that Warren has a pretty sizable following. The question would be--does she plan to do anything with it?

Again, who knows?

Didn't hear mention of Teachout, and I've read a few accounts of the conference. So I don't know.

But that goes to the point (from what I read at DKOS)--the conference attendance was down partly because many of the more liberal (or progressive, whatever) Kossacks stayed home due to the schism in the Base.

Especially due to Kos' treatment of them--the STFU and GTFO number that he keeps pulling.

So, I'm figuring that this conference probably was comprised mostly of conservadems-- except for the contingency of Warren supporters who went to support her during her speech. (And some Rev Barber supporters, too. Probably the same people.)

Hey, I'm the last one to ask. After all, I wouldn't be "caught dead" at one of these Netroots Nation shindigs. I'd just as soon attend one of Pete Peterson's shindigs! Not much difference, since DKos is going to support corporatist Dems in 2014 and 2016.

;-)

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

DKos.

Which is not to say that they would disallow this person to attend. But I can't imagine that she had a lot of support there--if she is a Green Party (or any third party) candidate.

Again, I've never attended this conference. But I DO know that attempting to garner support for third parties is a good way to be "shown the door," LOL!

That, I've been told directly.

jo6pac's picture
Submitted by jo6pac on

When I agree with Markos Moulitsos, you know it is serious.

My thought also.

I was just wondering have lame stream dnc types take over NN. Going to AZ will kill it for sure something they would be happy about.

TheMomCat's picture
Submitted by TheMomCat on

He has his boy, AdamB, as chairman of the board and a FPer, McCarter in the board. You can't tell me that the board was not aware of his opposition to AZ. But I don't think the DNC had a hand in this, they need kos and his pragmatic sheep to push HRC.

Perhaps the board is way more militant than kos who decided to hang his hypocritical hat on one issue.

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

the conference.

Never even thought about it like that. And also consider what it does for the corporatist Democrats.

I saw mentioned somewhere, could have been a Tweet, that protestors were "carted off" during Biden's spiel Thursday (or whenever). I'm still trying to find the details. Think it might have been Code Pink--but not positive. The protest was over I/P though, IIRC.

At any rate, corporatist Democrats all risk heckling and protestors.

Further, at best, any of the corporatist Dems would likely get a lackluster reception next year--especially if we're engaged in any meaningful way with Russia.

So what better way to take the pressure off any and all the corporatists (from having to show up, that is), than have the Grand Poobah himself, Kos, condemn the entire conference from the outset.

IOW--this will undoubtedly be a great assist to any corporatist Dem candidates.

After all, most of the potential 2016 Dem candidates probably would prefer to publicly distance themselves from anything, or anybody, even remotely considered "liberal," unless they absolutely thought that it would destroy their chances of winning.

Kos' "act" simply relieves them of any obligation to do so.

And now the Establishment Dems can send in Sanders, or the equivalent non-serious Dem candidate, as the Dem Party's representative, without incurring any "risk" to the Dem Party.

"What's not to like," from the corporatist Dem's perspective?

;-)

[Sorry--sort of redundant, but not enough time to correct!]

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

over the Fourth of July weekend.

If anyone here actually read the diary that this was contained in (and has a link), I would love to have it, to read it myself.

It "sounded as though" the comment/exchange was between Kos and a member in another diary--not part of one of Kos' actual diaries.

More than a few folks were flabbergasted, especially since Daily Kos was soliciting money, at that time. (I'm not on any email list, thank goodness.)

Anyway, I "can't find jack" at that website--never have been able to. Not sure if it's that huge, or just that poorly designed.

And I have no time lately to read, much less post.

But as I can, I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for this type of rhetoric from him, in the future.

Splashoil's picture
Submitted by Splashoil on

GTFO has worked fine for me re: Kos. Of course, the rules state you cannot actually close your "account.". Anything you have posted is archived by TPTB. At least you know how they roll. Fool me once... Netroots? Who is left? Marcos is just another Harold Ford shill. Remember "charging the gates?". Good times!

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

much more recent comment (made sometime around the Fourth of July).

BTW, I wasn't blogging during the Clinton/Obama wars, but have read quite a bit about it since I began blogging.

I appreciate the link to The Confluence, and I agree with goldberry one hundred percent--I wish that he would STFU.

But considering that it is "his" blog, with supposedly over one million members, I'm sorta doubting that he will do so.

;-)

If he does continue down this path--alienating so many of his members--I can envision an equivalent "event" (the writers' strike) occurring.

Of course, it may not matter. If foreign affairs, such as a new war with Russia, are in play by the time of the General Election in 2016, I can't imagine any Democratic Party politician being elected.

In my case, I wouldn't pull the lever for any of the corporatist Dems, so his "advice" does affect me too much.

But I am terribly "curious" to read the actual comments/exchange made, and missed the entire thing 'cause I've not been blogging much for weeks.

(I can't ever find anything other there--unless it's a staff writer. It's simply impossible to locate anything, if it's not bookmarked. And I didn't bookmark it, because I had a browser crash before I got around to it.)

BTW, I've seen several DKos commenters say that Kos himself has said that "he no longer owns or controls Netroots Nation."

Regardless, I think that his "nonendorsement" will surely be helpful to any corporatist Democratic candidate(s) who may wish to circumvent the NN conference next year.

Especially, if there is only one Democratic candidate standing when the conference rolls around next year.

But I'm still looking for the July link, if any of the Corrente/Daily Kos "crossover" posters have one. I don't remember the diary name or the poster, since I've not posted there for a while. ;-)

TheMomCat's picture
Submitted by TheMomCat on

I went digging around in my files and found this gem where kos essentially labeled anyone not supporting HRC as a "hater" in a diary that was a very biased poll to " to gauge sentiment around Hillary Clinton on Daily Kos." Parent up because the rest of the thread is quite a tell as are some of the 1140 comments.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1296224/53327267#c687

It's a poll (16+ / 1-)

so not sure how much nuance you think you can have.

But in any case, the question is about her being the nominee. You can either be enthusiastic about that, non-enthusiastic about that but still supportive, or a hater. And every comment in this thread expressing a more "nuanced" explanation fits into the "not crazy about it, but will still support her" category.

Seems to me the anger comes from haters realizing they are pretty fringy.

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

to find this diary in your files. ;-)

I'm thinking that the one I saw mentioned was actually an exchange between Kos and a member in someone's else's post--don't know which post or which diarist. Supposedly happened over the Fourth of July holiday. (Probably went unnoticed by a lot of people, since it was in a comment, not a diary.)

Anyway, this one that you've posted is certainly an interesting diary! And along the same lines as the other one.

Needless to say, I haven't gotten a chance to read every comment, but plenty enough of them to see that it caused a bit of a stir, LOL!

I truly know very little [compared to you and ek] about the "inner workings," etc., of that blog. Maybe Kos' hateful ways lately will be of little consequence to his blog and/or the next Netroots Nation conference. Dunno. (although I can't imagine that it could be helpful to him, in any way)

I guess time will tell . . .

Submitted by Dromaius on

I don't have time nor desire to go into the inner workings of Kos and his politics. However I will say that in 2008 he was CLEARLY in Obama's camp and CLEARLY out to paint the Clintons as racists. Once the Clinton supporters left his site in droves, here were his words for them:

“Clinton and her shrinking band of paranoid holdouts wail and scream about all those evil people who have ‘turned’ on Clinton and are no longer ‘honest power brokers’ or ‘respectable voices’ or whatnot, wearing blinders to reality, talking about silly little ‘strikes’ when in reality, Clinton is planning a far more drastic, destructive and debilitating civil war.”

Link

The times they are a-changin' and now I speculate that Kos' financial outlook dictates that he rallies behind the Clintons. So now anyone who doesn't support them is a "hater".

And of course, the word "hater" is intended to shut down any attempt at rational discussion. Shutting down rational discussion is how Markos rolls.

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

I've read that both Reid and Durbin were early supporters of PBO's.

Frankly, I honestly believe that Kos may not have any principles--just a desire to be on the right side of the Dem Party apparatus. (Which he was then, and is now.)

Charles Pierce has written [again] about the severely depressed attitude amongst the Dem Party faithful at Netroots Nation.

Lost Weekend

By Charles P. Pierce 7/21/2014 at 11:15 AM

I do not know what to make of the Netroots Nation hootenanny that just passed. I met some nice people, heard some interesting discussions (the great Nina Taylor of Ohio presided over a barn burner about voter suppression), watched Joe be Biden, watched Senator Professor Warren get treated like the pope on parade, and heard Reverend William Barber bring the thunder.

But the edge and the urgency simply were not there. It seemed more like a jobs fair for the professional left than anything else. The interesting panels on actual issues were passing rare; there was an appalling lack of attention paid to environmental concerns. There was more apparent interest in Building Your Brand than there was even in our old pal, the Keystone XL pipeline, which is coming down to the wire on its possible approval, and which has served -- symbolically and every way else -- to energize the environmental movement like nothing has since the first Earth Day.

And then, at the end, Markos Moulitsas, who helped build the event in the first place, announced that neither he nor his Daily Kos community would participate next year, because the event is being held in Arizona, and Moulitsas is boycotting the state until the odious Arizona SB 1070 -- the "Papers, Please" statute -- is off the books entirely. On Sunday, a representative of the Netroots board explained that having the convention in Arizona was "taking the fight" right into the belly of the beast. Me? I feel strongly both ways, but I would like to say that holding a convention in Arizona in the middle of fking July is not my idea of fun. Or of proper hydration, for that matter. . . .

Mostly who's left at DKos now, seems to be conservadems--and they run in packs and sling around HR's. OTOH, if one sticks primarily to facts and links, they can avoid some of this. Otherwise--watch out!

(I stay out of their way by sticking to posting facts and links, when I do very occasionally even bother to post there.)

I also don't worry about the blog inter-workings. Heck, I have enough of a problem trying to "find diaries" over there using their so-called search engine, LOL!

Rumor has it that he may be giving up the gig (the blog) entirely after the 2016 election cycle. Just informal gossip. But as they say, "where there's smoke, there's fire."

We'll see.

BTW, later I hope to post the the video of Barber's excellent and righteous rant (in a good way). From some of the attendees' comments, it appears that Barber's remarks were probably the only part of the conference worth attending.

Alexa's picture
Submitted by Alexa on

Kos is a "Party" man. Pure and simple.

All one has to do is read the staffs's and his diaries--the content is usually purely and simply corporatist neoliberal drivel.

Even Joan McCarter puts out mostly propaganda, anymore; especially when it comes to the ACA, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

And as soon as you open up the Home page, you're immediately inundated with Democratic Party fundraising and campaign ads. (that wasn't always so, in my experience)

The writers over there are ALL Dem Party apparatchiks--or they sound like it.

Occasionally, there is some decent "information" posted there, if you can cut through the BS, to get to it. And there are a couple of decent "Groups" left.

But one by one, the actual liberal bloggers are being run off.

So the only redeeming quality left there is "the eyeballs"--if getting one's message out to a large audience is the goal.

There's really nothing else left.