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dblhelix's picture
Submitted by dblhelix on

that emphasizes social justice as its primary platform. Activism around providing direct assistance to abortion care providers would be consistent.

I'm not enthusiastic about NWP and the like. I'd be interested in a broader multiracial coalition that crosses gender lines. More along the lines of the 80s Rainbow Coalition.

I understand that concerns about women getting shunted aside, but I see that as a problem w/ leadership.

It would also need formal structure w/ accountability. It's too easy for people to collect a lot of money on the internet while playing both sides of the fence.

People need to get past the idea that power is won by collecting money and running races. A coalition that put its resources toward a number of issues -- from inner city neglect to Underground Trains to retraining workers in manufacturing would actually land up w/ a lot more power than planting "a few of our own" in elected office here or there. There is such a thing as a sit-down voting strike.

madamab's picture
Submitted by madamab on

Started, men were very actively involved.

It's quite simple. You cannot have social justice while 51% of the population is treated as second-class citizens.

If you want real change and real social justice, put women first. It works.

Men need to realize that it's in their own best interests to support women and treat them with equal justice under the law.

I agree that it's a failure of leadership when women don't make this clear right off the bat, because both men and women are victims of the patriarchy which keeps all of us in an unjust and unequal society, at constant war with imaginary enemies to try and control ever-dwindling resources. The sustainable, peaceful, cooperative Chalice principle is shouted down because not enough women are in power to make their voices heard. The Blade principle has become far too powerful. Balance is necessary or our society will simply destroy itself.

I'll be over here and at Violet's tomorrow to show examples of what I'm saying. Time for bed now.

jjmtacoma's picture
Submitted by jjmtacoma on

but I have concerns (too) about the education requirements to help people understand that we wouldn't be out to destroy men and "all they have worked for" but to advance women in the society - and put them on more equal footing - in order to benefit all people.

It would be SO easy for any opponent to cast fear in the hearts of average men with the NWP name alone. It isn't to say that I don't believe there are men and women who do support women's rights, I know there are. But the disadvantage that the name alone could scare women (and men) away from the party for the same reason they will not claim to be feminist. Only the most enlightened of the DFHs would self identify with this party name.

Submitted by lambert on

... but if I were still in the cubes I'd call it an "implementation detail." I'm not sure I'm the guy to invent the rhetoric, but it can be done, I'm sure.

Maybe the "National Women & Children's Party" -- as in "Women and children first"? Ha ha, only serious.

And I'm also very, very tired, after watching the Dems and the "progressives" flush everything we learned 2003-2006 down the crapper of access, of trimming my sails, as it were. Trimming our sails hasn't done anything but get us closer to the rocks. We need to try something else. Sorry for mixed metaphors!

madamab's picture
Submitted by madamab on

but frankly, my dear, I don't give a d*mn if they join us at first. Just recognizing a problem does not mean the problem is insurmountable.

Success breeds success. If we build it, they will come.

Here are some links as promised:

Women Transform Welsh Politics

Reforming the UN: Gender Balance and Women's Equality

UN Presentation on Women's Rights and Representation and War

Hillary and Gender Equality

CMike's picture
Submitted by CMike on

We have a two party system and I think the only avenue to empowerment for people on the Left is to take over the Democratic Party. I'll vote for any Democrat who supports single payer health care for all in any federal election. And I'll vote for any Republican, regardless of their platform, running against any Democrat who does not support single payer health care.

Instead of sitting out an election or two by staying home or voting third party, if core Democratic constituents publicly announced themselves devoted to running DINOs out of office and willing to do so by voting for Republicans, either certain backbenchers and the members of the Democratic Party leadership would undergo Road to Damascus conversions or smaller House and Senate caucuses would be scrambling to install new congressional leadership and we could look forward to supporting a worthy standard bearer in 2016.

I don't know about the rest of you, but this episode has stuck in my craw for quite a while:

"We have to make responsible decisions in the Congress that are not driven by the dissatisfaction of anybody who wants the war to end tomorrow," Pelosi told the gathering at the Sofitel, arranged by the Christian Science Monitor. Though crediting activists for their "passion," Pelosi called it "a waste of time" for them to target Democrats. "They are advocates," she said. "We are leaders."

It was a rather fierce response to the party's liberal base, which frightens many a congressional Democrat. But it wasn't out of character for the new speaker. Pelosi's fixed and constant smile makes her appear as if she is cutting an ad for a whitening toothpaste. But when you listen to the words that come from her grinning maw, the smile seems more akin to that of a barracuda.

One reporter asked about Democratic lawmakers who proposed a tax increase for the war. "They were not making legislation; they were making a point," Pelosi judged.

The single payer position is the most useful one to rally around because, though I haven't made a systematic study, I'm thinking a high ratio of those all ready in that camp are also in one or more of the pro-labor, anti-imperialistic, pro-democratic, ecologically concerned, pro-equal rights, pro-choice camps.

Aeryl's picture
Submitted by Aeryl on

That's why part of the convo over at Violet's is about wrapping our heads around sacrificing Roe. We may have to accept a anti-Roe Repub may win an election if we split the Left vote, but that's what we will have to do. Along with creating some type of provider's network, to help the disadvantaged get access.

I still don't know about voting FOR a Republican, because I haven't seen anything that doesn't make me believe that the Democratic party won't move further right in an attempt to get that vote back. Which is why I think Violet's idea about having a third party faction within the Dem Party is important.

The plain and simple fact is, that those of us on the left will have to sacrifice some nebulous attempt at progress for a few years, to get power. Period. Whether the world will last a few more years, is of course, up for debate.

Submitted by lambert on

.... inside-outside and an Underground Railway for Roe work together.

splashy9's picture
Submitted by splashy9 on

That just drives the Dems to the right. Better to vote for a Green, which lets the Dems see that we want them to go for what the Greens stand for, which includes the ERA, for instance.

If a person isn't voting Dem because the Dem is too rightist, then you herd them to the left by voting left, not by voting right.

Submitted by lambert on

I don't think Roe is on the table, as it were. OTOH, the Underground Railroad concept removes Roe as an instrument of blackmail of women by Dems and "progressives," and that's a good thing.

S Brennan's picture
Submitted by S Brennan on

Can we dump this stupid meme?

Retraining workers in manufacturing would do what exactly? Unless we retrain people into, as Dean Baker puts it "protected professions" we just retain them into a relative high wage groups that will quickly once again be outsourced or undercut with H1-B type rules. Not to mention, retraining to higher wage pools dilutes the pool quickly.

Why do you think Bill Gates and goes in front of congress to lobby for ever greater numbers of engineers to be imported? He says, and nobody corrects him, that his company needs foreign scientist and engineers to survive...not because those folks across the 520 bridge need cheap indentured labor. It's ridiculous. This shit would end with sector wide labor agreements like Germany who kicks ass in the balanced trade department.

From my Facebook:

"Ever wonder why Germany with it's high wages, high taxes, powerful unions
and sky high cost of living winds up kicking everybody's ass in industrial
production and maintaining a balanced trade sheet?

Could it be that Germans look out for one another? Do you think Germans
understand their fates are intertwined...and that social unrest...however it
manifests inefficient? I think they do...and we do too, that's
why the CIA keeps the Gini index." - October 29 at 1:25pm · Comment
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From Yves Smith

If German labor practices are so terrible, then how was Germany an export
powerhouse, able to punch above its weight versus Japan and China, while the
US, with our supposedly great advantage of more flexible (and therefore
cheaper) labor, has run chronic and large current account deficits? And why
is Germany a hotbed of successful entrepreneurial companies, its famed
Mittelstand? If Germany was such a terrible place to do business, wouldn't
they have hollowed out manufacturing just as the US has done? Might it be
that there are unrecognized pluses of not being able to fire workers at
will, that the company and the employees recognize that they are in the same
boat, and the company has more reason to invest in its employees - November
13, 2009

Note having retrained on four different occasions, as well as US Army service, I find this " retraining workers in manufacturing" offensive. I now hold a BS degree, but I should retrain as a maid or butler huh? Stop repeating lame talking points, manufacturing is key to wealth CREATION, that is why the Germans held onto it, that is why the Chinese want it. Without manufacturing, all the associated jobs disappear. Unbekymmertheit

BDBlue's picture
Submitted by BDBlue on

It depends on what you're manufacturing and what job you have in the process. Machinists, for example, are typically skilled.

Moreover, there's a difference between needing a college degree and having basic skills in reading, math, etc. I remember at one point one of the car manufacturers was looking at moving a plant to Mississippi and my engineer relative in charge of helping get the plant up and running freaked out because Mississippi had such horrible public schools a lot of the population where the factory would be moving didn't have the capability of reading the instruction and safety manuals for the machines. He was very relieved when they built the plant in another part of the US with better schools where they'd get a better educated workforce.

dblhelix's picture
Submitted by dblhelix on

Can we dump this stupid meme? Stop repeating lame talking points, manufacturing is key to wealth CREATION,

What sanctimonious drivel. Tell it to somebody out of work w/ nothing to offer up and bills to pay.

When I was very young, I held a union job w/ an excellent wage. I decided to go to graduate school instead. Photoshop replaced my old job five years later.

I've gone to depleted coal mining towns to work with people on computer skills and to relocate them to the DC area. What have you done lately? Yep -- this is the internet, a lot of hollering on blogs. You'd be very surprised to hear that lots of people just don't have the option of stamping their feet and waiting for Democrats to "renegotiate NAFTA."

I now hold a BS degree, but I should retrain as a maid or butler huh?

Who is telling you to become a maid? Sorry, no matter how many degrees you have, there is perpetual pressure to keep your skills up to date and to learn/use new tools.

dblhelix's picture
Submitted by dblhelix on

The number of people employed in Germany's crucial manufacturing sector fell 4.4 percent in the year to September, the Federal Statistical Office said Monday

While things may have changed in Germany, while my cousin was in what we'd call junior/senior high, he got tracked into vo-tech, or, Hauptschule, specifically, old-school draftsmanship using pencils and t-squares. He landed up working for a company that manufactures parts for bicycles like crankshafts and so on. Within a few years he had to retrain on CAD. Later, to keep his job, he was sent to Asia.

Things aren't picture-perfect in Germany. Relatively speaking, there may be greater job security, but you do sacrifice mobility. If you're a "late starter," you're out of luck as you're tracked early on in the educational system.

nihil obstet's picture
Submitted by nihil obstet on

Relatively speaking, there may be greater job security, but you do sacrifice mobility.

You can trade in job security on your own, but you can't get job security on your own. The treatment of workers as commodities who are themselves responsible for identifying needed skills, getting the training, and then locating the jobs doesn't work very well. The retraining process, separated from assured jobs at the end, has not been an effective response to job loss. And one might note that social mobility is lower in the U.S. than in Germany.

S Brennan's picture
Submitted by S Brennan on

"I was under the impression that manufacturing was relatively unskilled labor." - jumpjet

It's sad that folks have been so brainwashed by the MSM. No, manufacturing requires more skill[s] than any other endevour, more engineers [all kinds], designers [all kinds], code writers, planners, drafters, marketing, machinests, welders, skilled assembly workers and the occasional dumb fuck who got short changed in the uterus or in the subsequent years leading to adulthood. No matter how much you mechanize assembly, the human brain/hand is far more flexible than any machine...and competitiom means constantly changing production lines which prevents total mechanization, because it is not cost effective to retool limited production runs. The are an awfully high percentage of Americans who don't get this.

And on the subject of high wages, does anybody in their right mind not realize that wage demands are related to PRICE demands...or "rents" as they are now called. If people could buy a house for 15,000, groceries for 20 a week, a doctors visit for 10, a car for 2,000 do you really think workers would demand a six figure salary? High wages in America are directly related to high "rents"...and let's face it, wages haven't kept pace with the "rents" being charged. In the 70's wages rose with prices, not the other way round. In spite of what economist say, prices are determined by inputs, margins, and demand, increase ANY one of these three and prices increase.

Furthermore, the reason Americans can't compete has little to do with labor arbitrage, shipping costs usually eat that difference even when labor rates go to zero. No, other countries have policies to garner manufacturing, China's industrial policy for example engages in massive currency support, state supported industrial espionage, price supports, subsidies, import tariffs and outright embargos. While costs are now rising because the competition in the US has been so reduced, machined molds can be had for below what the component cost would be.

As I have posted before:

"An American/Hong Kong friend of mine rents a 6,000 ft^2 factory in China that includes a front office, large parking lot for 900.00 USD per month, with water and electrical included from a "former communist official" who now runs what used to be "state land" that has been improved with "interest free state loans". Another friend says the cheapest comparable in India would be 8,000 USD per month In the US it would be about 10,000 per month with utilities about 12,000.00 in a place like rural Arkansas.

I think it is fair to say somebody is subsidizing China. Whatever is going ain't free matter how many times the Friedman jumps up and down stamping his feet. If you've never been involved in manufacture chances are you don't know ditty about it and your remarks will reflect that deep and broad ignorance. In America, discussion of manufacture is as limited by ideology as creationists discussions on evolution. Why do so many feel free to comment on the subject in which their ignorance is so profound?

Well manufacture is dispensable right?

Consider, malaria was once a deadly scourge in America, it was at one time the most common form of death in Chicago. It was eradicated, not by medicine, but by public works. So too cholera, Typhoid fever and other forms of Dysentery. Do you think the Great Dams that power, control flooding and irrigate America were built by economists? Do you think that CPA's designed the bridges that replaced ferries? Do you think Lawyers designed and built the airplanes that can take to the other side of the planet in less than a day? Was it economists that created the first integrated circuit? Vacuum tube? Air conditioning? Electricity? Film? TV?

Whether it is public conveyances, secure structures, or labor saving mechanisms the oft mocked engineer/scientist, with a cadre of machinists, welders, technicians and blue collar workers have achieved far more for humanity than all the lawyers, economists, CPA's, politicians, journalist and financiers put together. And yet, we as a nation, have systematically removed the jobs from our economy upon which engineers, machinist, technicians and highly trained Blue collar workers depend, they are now being told to re-train as servants to the wealthy, personal assistants, butler, maids are all projected to be growth areas of employment. One neighbor of mine, a female machinist who has her own small mill, lathe and TIG welding set-up.She has been un-employed long term and is being encouraged to "re-train" as a "personal assistant" by State UI. Right now she is a skilled tradesman with every reason to be proud of her work, she finds the demand humiliating and I agree. FYI, she is also an US Army Veteran.

Think about that.

I started life as a construction worker, apprenticed to carpenter, when Volker tanked the economy to support bankers concerns with inflation, I started taking correspondence courses in design, which led to me going to school at night while working as a sales rep. I joined the US Army to pay for University and got a degree in Engineering*. I worked long hours for decades, I have never had a "paid vacation". It has not been a pleasure cruise. I have invested over 375,000 of my personal savings to create a manufacturing, design & engineering firm...some day I hope to break even...little minds talk about retraining, I talk about re-industrializing and wealth CREATION, not to be confused with wealth EXTRACTION.

*BTW, no other professional school, as a percentage, rids itself of as many students as engineering schools, those that can't stand the heat are forced to look elsewhere. Only one in twenty high school students have the requirements for engineering school. The one I transferred to was in the top five, 2,000 students applied for 3 slots. FYI, less than 20% [as of 2004, probably less now] of my class work as engineers, the two top reasons given were lack of work & low wages and still the richest college drop out can go in front of congress and say we need more training, more engineers. Bullshit, what need is good jobs, sector wide agreements, and fair trade policies that rely on OPEN bilateral negotiations, only deals that are of mutual benefit for the MAJORITY of each nations population should be considered.

If there is anybody that doesn't understand labor problems it's HR, their salary demands they adopt the corporate meme. As Mark Twain said: "they are paid not to understand". Active age discrimination in engineering is highly visible, just look for the 4-7 years experience label in ads. Having a HR person who profits from all this misery comment on what is to be done is just mind-boggling. I can't tell you what a great relief it is when I am in Europe, there, my designs win awards, as an engineer I get treated as a respected professional and I don't have to have to listen to ignorant people babble on subjects to which they have no experience. Now, if I just had better language skills...

jumpjet's picture
Submitted by jumpjet on

Tariffs, quotas, capital controls- shut down entirely the flow of foreign goods and money into the United States, or at least significantly reduce it. That would breathe some new life into American manufacturing and engineering, wouldn't it?

S Brennan's picture
Submitted by S Brennan on

Why would I want to do that, if people compete fairly they should get market share. I don't like what the US does with cotton or sugar. Trade should be fair. To be fair, trade needs to be bilateral and highly conditional.

I export, the greatest structural impediments to US goods occurs in their own market. US chain retailers and distributors regularly block access to market because it is their undying belief that they can take your product over to China and get it knocked off and have a larger margin. US retailers actively work against US manufactures, that type of behavior is not seen in the rest of the industrial world. Suffice to say, a significant number of US made products are available in Europe that are not available in the US. Free trade & free markets are illusionary, the terms themselves are silly marketing gimmicks.

splashy9's picture
Submitted by splashy9 on

I have a high respect for those that actually create things with skill. It's amazing how few realize how dependent they are on those that build what they use.