Flooring it Yourself
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So, sadly, the growing season is winding down and harvest time will soon be here. I expect many of us will be very busy. But after the last of the cans and dried herbs have been put up, it'll be time for me to return to the indoor project list. This year's first job: putting a proper floor on a 10x12 concrete basement surface. It's my office, and it's damn cold in the winter. I'd like to change that.
Consider this an open flooring thread, I want to hear any stories and suggestions and environmental correctness concerns you have, as well as ideas about how to do it cheaply. Let's assume I've got a budget of $500.
Tiling the whole floor seems out of the question at that price, so I thought instead to do a small inset at the door threshold, a "tile rug" as it were. Mold is also an issue, as this property (the land, not the house itself) is constantly wet/flooded and I'm told that's something to watch out for when choosing basement floor materials. I'm partial to blue, purple and gold, and the room has full sized windows on two sides, so it actually gets a lot of light for a basement level room. Note: I've done six different upstairs floors in the past couple of years, with a variety of materials, so I'm pretty experienced.
As it progresses I'll post pics, but that will be a while from now. This is Research Mode, and I want to make sure I get as much information as I can.
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Cool!
And I have similar projects, so this will help....
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
Don't put down a floor with that first $500 -- seal out the wet,
if there's any way you can.
You say it's a daylight basement?
If a tile floor is prohibitively expensive, what about a vinyl rug? It's a little softer underfoot than bare concrete, and will promote a little less 'walk-in-cooler' atmosphere.
But the big thing is to be sure you're *dry* in there -- a coat of exterior sealant on the basement is well worth the money. If you can then do even a thin insulation on the inside walls, that will help too.
We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0
Forbo Marmoleum
Naural Linoleum. Comes in lots of wild colors.
Come together at The Confluence
Sarah, tell me more about sealer
is it very expensive? i've used some concrete sealer on an exterior project and so far it's holding up very well, but it was only ~35$/gal and was a 'combo' product- sealer & color together. are you speaking of a sealer for wall surfaces as well? the walls in this room are finished and painted, so i'm not sure how i'd seal or reseal them.
new insulation has been blown into the walls already, as well as new higher R-value windows put in last year. it was still pretty cold last winter. i'd love to do a heated floor, but i doubt i have the money for that.
goldberry- i've read/heard that linoleum is a bitch to put
down yourself. have you done it? i looked at some last year, and i recall being a bit put off by the amount of work, altho i could be misremembering.
Bamboo flooring
I see that in the makeover shows, it's environmentally responsible, and it actually looks great. Not sure about cost, I think its at the lower end. (of course, it's probably like $5,000,000 a square foot, now that I think about it.)
Ah, a basement... I love those and miss them.
this room is one of the reasons i love this house, blogtopus
for those of you considering downsizing or buying a house, please consider ones like this, which is in an "older" subdivision and was constructed in the late 60s. it's very modest looking by today's McMansion standards, but in fact has plenty of space, including this walkout basement, which allows me to employ the lower level as a living space, and not just for storage or inward-looking 'rec room' styles. but overall, my design and improvements are meant to show that it really can be true: less is more.
there are so many benefits to recycling, renewing, reusing, and this house is teaching me that. the "bad" part about it has been that environmentally, we've had to put in a lot of $ improving it, as things like the insulation and windows were from the time when no one cared about high heating/cooling bills. but every year i try to improve at least two rooms, and i've learned so much doing it mmostly myself.
Yes CD it's like the sealer you know except it goes on outside.
Or you can get some penetrating sealant that works like fiberglass/epoxy works on wood. If you stain the concrete then seal it (think painted floorcloth) you can get marvelous tile-like appearance for much less money.
Then I'd think about a heavy woven-reed or sisal mat to go under your desk, and while it's "industrial" in appearance about to the max, I'd give thought to putting Reflectix under that mat.
Flooring
I agree that sealing out the wet is best, if possible. There are worse things than having a concrete floor.
Don't know what it would cost now, but about ten years ago a friend and I (neither of whom are exactly fixer types) but down a linoleum floor in my kitchen. We used the squares instead of rolls, which made it a lot easier. Did a checkerboard pattern. All you had to do was measure and cut the squares next to the walls with scissors. Took us a day and I think it cost less than $200 for the linoleum, it certainly didn't cost anywhere near $500.
And I love older homes. Always look for them. If you get the ones built before the 1970s, they tend to be built better (my current house was built in the 40s, my previous one in the 50s) and have a lot of built in storage areas that disappeared from newer places. Plus, they almost always have a yard.
different things
1. One friend made a wooden platform over the floor--she laid a pattern of boards on their sides and then laid the regular flooring on top; she had a dehumidifier too.
2. Then there's this: http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx
3. This was interesting too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underfloor_...
Good luck!!
Ah, my solutions tend to the KISS
principle whenever possible -- breaking slab or running wire / piping is not merely a lot of work, but costs a lot of $$$.
That said, I'm fixing to have to do some. That water heater hiccup last year has buckled some floors -- I didn't catch it before it infiltrated -- and one of these days very soon the bathroom needs overhaulage not just for its looks but its functional survival. Sigh.
At least I won't be apt to have to re-mortgage.
Grin about what you can!
Well, can we break it down a little more?
Do you want to install an in-floor heating system at some point? I don't know how big a space you want to do, but a straight up radiant hydronic system (water in tubes) can be put in after you've poured your concrete, and no, you don't have to chip the slab out to do it. Essentially, you frame in using treated lumber a grid on the floor, run the PEX tubes, then pour a 2" layer of self-levelling concrete between the framed in bays. I did something similar so I can lay a hardwood floor in our new house.
You can also use an electric mat-type system. http://www.warmzone.com/hydronic-electri... for more info. I believe there are electric floor mats as well---you can always just warm up the area where you're sitting, then roll up the mat at the end of the cold season. I've never used any of these products, but I did read about them awhile ago.
But you'll spend a shitload more than $500 to do this. Since you have a limited budget, the trick is to do something you can take out if you need to should you want to add heat later.
Which leads to some bigger questions...
You have several issues to consider. First, is moisture is on the outside trying to work its way in or on the inside and trying to work it's way out? Condensation from the inside ending up on the floors or walls means you have a ventilation issue, while moisture seeping in from outside means you have a wicking issue.
Either way, you have to have a thermal (concrete is colder than the air so condensation may form) and moisture (concrete is porous and water will seep in) break between the concrete and whatever you want to put down. A sealer will stop moisture, but only if you spend some real money for a good product and can get it inside and out. Since your slab is aready poured and it soudns like you've put stuff on it, I think you are SOL on any additional sealer.
A physical break is your best bet. This is where shit like a false floor comes into play. A false floor is framing in a subfloor on the concrete with treated wood, laying down a moisture barrier (6mil plastic will work), then plywood, then your floor.
You might want to consider a click-together product like Dricore (http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx). It has a poly bottom, so you can lay it down, click it together, then lay down whatever floor you want. (I don't know if you can uninstall it easily---call 'em and ask.)
Search Craigslist for leftover hardwood flooring. You won't need very much and people often have boxes leftover, so you can get bamboo or cork any other number of things cheap. You can just float it (meaning no nails) right over the false floor or Dricore, so if you want to add a heating system later, you can just pick it up.
If you go hardwood, just remember to leave yourself some room---about 3/8" on the ends for seasonal expansion and contraction. Cover the open space with trim at the bottom of the wall---no one will ever see it.
Damn, if you lived closer we could mill up some of the maple I have and you'd have a beeeyootiful floor.
If you're feeling really adventurous and you have the tools, you can salvage some flooring from a demolition site, or even from pallets, clean it, plane it, and mill the tongue and groove. Check Carigslist---you'd be stunned at how many people just want to throw away their solid hardwood floors.
And finally, if you can't afford to add heating to the floor now, get a nice little heater and keep it at your feet. I know it sounds nuts, but you will feel warmer if your feet are warm. That's the whole idea behiond this in-floor heating crap. And it really works.
Apologies if this sounds all confused. I'm a little tired right now. Hope it helps.
Oooh, talk construction to me, Ohio!
And I bet that demolition site concept would work.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
If you're going to be all grossly hetero like that, lambert
You have to give me a credit card number. But here's a free taste. You ready?
Hammers. Hammmmmerrrsss. I have five. Ham. Errs.
Did you get a tingle up your leg?
$4.99 a minute, pal.
The demo thing is for real. My electrician has to demo his house and has offered us all the fir in it that we can take out. That's floors, trim, and other crap. You need a catspaw, a tall pry bar, good gloves, goggles, a Sawzall with multiple blades, good boots, time, and a tetanus shot.
If you do want to get flooring this way, look for material that's at least 3/4" (you want it to be sandable a few times before you have to take it out), and the tongues and grooves are in good shape. You can take some busted ones, but try to get them unbusted and with the nails removed.
Borrow or buy a nice little desktop planer. Now, I got a cheap one on ebay for $150 that I ran probably 3,000 feet of cedar through, but I killed that planer dead. there was smoke and sparks and some cracking noises. So I got a Makita that cost more, but dayum, that's a nice power tool. I've used it to clean up finish materials and to get framing members exactly the right width for nailers and blocking.
I have a blade with a nick in it right now, but there are two new ones in the pakcage right on my desk. I'll use the nicked blades to clean fof the top layer of rough sawn and crap on the materials I have, then resharpen those blades. I'll swap out when I get to doing the really fancy stuff later this winter.
You can also just sand everything clean after it's installed. Open up a door to the outside and plug a bigass fan opposite, and turn it on. That will blow a lot of the sand out, but it's still a mess.
Oh, did I mention our heating contractor walked off the job? Fucker. He quit because he didn't like that I questioned him about not showing up when he said he would. But we've got a new heating contractor starting tomorrow and the inspector for a partial rough-framing inspeciton so I can start insulating.
Temp lighting in today. I got teary-eyed. And then I had to cut out a bit of the sheathing and re-do to open up a part of the wall for built-in storage. Oooo, another leg-tingler for you:
Nail gun. Naaaiiiillll ggguuunnnn. I got one framing, two finish, a brad, and two air staplers. Oooo, I just got all atingle at that.
Anyway, we'll see if the inspector lets me do the built-in the way I did it. Oh, and I mudded another bit of drywall in the mechanical/utility room because the hetaing contrctor will be mounting stuff on the wall starting tomorrow.
Anyway, CD! Hey! Down here! Tell me more about the room and we can probably design something quickly that will work nicely for just a touch of money. What size is the room? What are the wall like? Any floor drains? What kind of tools do you have?
LOL!!!!
Seriously, my comment on demo was an overly tactful way of saying that where CD is right now, there's probably a lot of demo.
[ ] Very tepidly voting for Obama [ ] ?????. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.
Demolition is just another way to spell "free"
If you have the time and the inclination, there are lots of opportunities to gather some lovely stuff. But you will get filthy (not in that $4.99 a minute way) and if you have any allergies or other breathing problems, you may want to re-think this.
Generally, though, if you can't do the demo, there are lots of people who do. Craigslist is great---you pay a reasonable sum of money (and sometimes free), spend some time cleaning stuff up, and you end with something pretty that lasts.
But you kinda hafta be a little nuts. Which, I am getting the vibe, anyway, is not an unusual occurence here in the basement of the mighty Corrente building.