Yew cin teck the buoy outta the tryller-pork, but yew caint teck the tryler-pork outta the buoy…

A Quick Study, But A Slow Learner

Oral Roberts went to South Africa some time in the 50s or 60s, and left in a hurry when caught dealing in uncut diamonds - a felony drawing very long sentences there. It was hushed up to some extent, but South Africans remained skeptical of US ’evangelists’ for a long time after that. Not that they needed them - they have their own home-grown hucksters, like any ’Christian’ country.

While I’m no fan or booster of ORU (as it is nearly universally called, possibly so people can avoid saying “Oral Roberts”), it is a university, accredited by one of the official US Department of Education accreditation bodies (and not because of some GOP sinecure). There is a gay community there, though under persecution, and plenty of non-wingnut kids who go there because it’s within their reach. (Plenty of wingnut kids, too, to be sure [it is the hometown of James Inhofe], but they’re 30% of the US population so you do find them everywhere.)

Despite university mismanagement and now allegations of fraud, it’s allegations of academic incompetence that should get attention, and there aren’t many of those yet. There are plenty of God-fearing blue-state families who worked hard to send their kids to college, and chose ORU for reasons that include geography and accessibility. If they learn nursing or accounting or a teaching certificate and learn it right, it would be horrid to imply those degrees were worthless because the administrators are crooks.

Harvard wasn’t called “Harvard University [sic]” just because its president has strange ideas about women’s capabilities. This is why we have accreditation, and it would be nice if people were careful not to imply that all the professors and students were ignorami if the administration turns out to have abused its power.

Not that ORU is Harvard, or anything, but unlike something like (say) Ave Maria University or Regent University, most ORU students seem to go there to learn their chosen field with a religious background, not to learn to be an authoritarian dominionist who merely pretends to be a lawyer (or whatever else) to accomplish wingnut missions.

Proximity may bias me, though; just food for thought.

The fact that the founder of this university claimed that “God” would kill him if donors did not pony 8 million tells you what you need to know about this institution. If it doesn’t, you are not only a fool but a damned fool.

Also, I am not sure that the tax point about “wear it once” is correct at all. In general, clothing that is useful for general purpose business, casual or social wear in North America is not a bona fide business expense if your job is “university president’s family.” Maybe a professional fashion model or agency can deduct such clothing since it relates to the core mission of the enterprise, but an attorney cannot deduct her or his business suits, nor can a law firm take a deduction for buying such clothing for an associate unless the value of the clothing is imputed to salary for that employee for both income and FICA taxation. Distinguished from “uniforms” and protective gear, or clothing that is worksite-specific, i.e. “Earl” the plumber, nurses, cops, EMT, fast-food workers, etc. or their employers can deduct job-site specific gear because it’s not truly useful for general purpose business or other wear.

While ORU is presumably non-profit (for now….), the clotheshorse inventory for Mrs. Roberts would seem to have to be imputed as income to her or her husband, especially if she keeps the clothes (i.e. takes “ownership”.) This is not my primary area of practice so I would welcome corrections from practitoners who may follow regulatory developments in this area more closely.

hey where did Oral Roberts University get the sculpture of Saddam Hussein’s hands clasped in meditative benevolent dictatorship?

not long ago. He had to buy a particular shade of blue shirt to wear on camera. He tried to take the expense off his taxes under just the situation you describe: it was required by his employer as a condition of employment, AND, he maintained, it was a color he particularly detested and never wore in his off-hours, therefore he would never have purchased these shirts without this requirement.

Tax court judge ruled against him. The matter of his personal taste in shirt colors notwithstanding, there was nothing unique (as you said, the “Earl’s Plumbing” embroidery etc) which kept the shirts from being used off-the-job. Deduction denied.

Sorry i can’t cite a case number and all that; I am not a lawyer of any sort and just ran across this story as a funny a few years ago.

But from the ORU story as written it sounds to me like Mrs. Roberts is well and truly screwed, legally speaking as I do not want to trouble my beautiful mind with thoughts of anything else related to that word, on the matter of writing off her clothing expenses. I roll my eyes in her general direction at the very thought in fact. Damn but one of the most annoying things about These People is their constant attitude of entitlement….

(whew, I got through a whole post about Oral Roberts without ever once slipping up and mentioning his other brothers Anal and Phallic! I am always so ashamed of myself when I do this. Praise FSM…)

who allow themselves to be used by of every charlatan who claims god’s direct command deserve to be disappointed in their leaders. Just like everyone who took Cretin-1’s word for his state of grace, anyone who takes a degree from Oral Roberts’ U should be ashamed. Matt, your sympathy is nice, but fraud was committed from the beginning to set up this school. While it may be accredited, its name is a joke. The profs and students at SMU have begun again to risk their own standing on that campus to keep from being associated with war criminals. The profs and students at Oral U. can have that kind of courage too.

Ruth

Do you have any links or info on this claim? I am quite interested in reading more about that.

These people have such outrageously strict, excluding, and regressive behavioral codes that it is no wonder we are seeing so many “falls from grace” like the one at Oral Roberts University. The bottom line for me is, if they are breaking the law, they should be brought to justice. Similarly, when did such extravagance become so accepted, as Christianity’s founder said to give away your possessions to the poor and not be a part of the ’world’?

This religion has lost its way, starting in the 60s and accelerating in the 70s, when they became fully enmeshed in the ’world’, involving themselves directly with right wing politics, and abandoning their religious principles. As such, as the right wing falls, we are now seeing a few things: 1) highly visible and high level failures throughout Christianity, 2) an abandoning of the strict and backward moral codes by the younger generation (they are actually significantly more supportive of gay rights than their parents and are more pro-choice, too), 3) right wing Christians are finding it hard to make new converts or to rally their troops by he usual tacti s of demonizing gay people or those who believe in the right to reproductive choice, 4) numerous parallels between fundamentalist-evangelical Christianity and fundie Judaism and Islam continue to be highlighted in the public’s eye, and 5) an overall loss of integrity for the Christian religion because of the meanness and un-Christlike behaviors of its leaders and its followers. Christianity’s main message is to “love one another” (John 13:34): the primary identity of this religion is now intolerance, exclusion, and downright meanness. Many people find the message of inclusive and unconditional love empowering and enlightening, however, the Christian church has left this beautiful teaching behind, in its rush toward power and wealth.

Anonymous Coward at 17:35, it looks like Anonymous Coward at 14:45 may have his televangelists confused. He may be talking about another case, in which event I hope he returns to provide the documentation you request. But a quick Google turns up the name Pat Robertson in connection with duplicitous African diamond dealings rather than O. Roberts.

Hard to keep the crooks straight, I know. :)

Is that a reference to Haggard 6:9? [rimshot, laughter]

But Xan, I think you’re right. Maybe Mullah Dobson could devote some of his millions to producing a handy chart, just so we could be sure which Christianist leaders have so far avoided indictment or defenestration?

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

“As long as I wear it once on TV, we can charge it off.” (Matthew 6:5)

Classic!

Where ever you will find a wealthy mafia king pin, a successful TV evangelist or President of a country or a billion dollar enterprise, you will find a zionist-jewish advisor standing next to them.

religion—think of the sumptuary laws in (middle ages I think), the amassing of fortunes by Pharoahs claiming descent from the sun,etc.

And please spare us the stoopid anti semitic ranting, qd. Christianists are perfectly able to be human, greedy and arrogant all by their lonesomes. Rome and the Vatican City aren’t full of museums because the Popes were all fabulous painters and sculptors.

It’s us groundlings/common folk who slip up and worship the human leaders that aid and abet this kind of behavior. If authoritarians had no followers, they’d have far less power and money to abuse.

It seems to me that every year that goes by the U.S. Government and the media target an evangelist to take another stab at Christianity. A favorite pastime of the Goverment and our wonderful non-biased media outlets is to crucify another Christian every year. Last year it was Ted Haggard and now its Richard Roberts turn to fry in the barbeque of the media.

Dont get me wrong, If they are guilty of doing this they should be punished. Oh well, I guess if your a Christian in America your assumed guilty before it’s proven and you get no fair trial.

I guess it’s time to break out the burning stakes and hunt some Christians down!

Offhand, the only preacher I can remember going down this year is Ted Haggard [rimshot. laughter]

Of course, if you’re one of the many children abused by Christianist pastors you’ve got my sympathy.

If not/anyhow: We’re talking about the Roberts abusing their authority, for which the news story, and the accompanying lawsuit, provides a strong prima facie case. Nothing to do with religion at all. It has to do with their behavior in the very public square you guys keep saying you want to be in.

Or were you one of the underage males who got text messages from Mrs. Robinson at 2:00AM, and so you feel a personal connection?

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

I guess if your an American Sunday Christian, it’s best to assume all Muslims are going to hell and save God the time and invade and kill their children and hand their oil to Jesus loving oil and sniper mercenary companies. Oil slick, Blackwater..whatever they go by, if love of the Lord Jesus in America means keeping quiet and turning the other cheek to mass murder, gee who wouldn’t want to be part of that!!

So when the anti-christ is probably knocking on your ego ridden American back door, the governments and perverted politicians and false prophets for profit that are contaminating the flocks, will hide in their bunkers and wait. And then, they will pray for the mountains to crush them and hide them from the face of God.. that day of wrath is surly coming. “Oh,well?”

No body is judge but God in Heaven. Nobody. Got that! But, if prophecy means changing the direction from evil, America can forget it. It’s taking satans hand and jumping in head first. I see nothing in America’s immediate future to prove me wrong.

How America , the great whore will fall and all those who partook in her delights and smut and drank from her blood filled military /drug filled golden cup. Will they in their lack of testing the spirits ,suffer Gods wrath? And the whore will fall with the tears of those who embraced her. The Great Whore of babylon has fallen.

Isn’t it possible that one of the daughters was text messaging the “underage males,” not the mother? My son uses a cell phone that is registered in my name. Should I be accused of calling “underage girls” in the middle night just because he does. Besides, most women in their fifties are not awake from 1-3 am, let alone running after pimply faced boys. Come on, folks! Let’s be realistic even if we aren’t willing to be fair!

“Honestly, what is it about Christianist authority figures and child abuse?”

It may be that some people who have pedophile urges sublimate them into what they believe to be “pro-child,” “pro-family” attitudes.

They are obsessed with children, and this is their way of dealing with it, of washing it clean (in the blood of the Lamb…). Of course, it never really takes, and some will break down and molest children.

Of course, others may be less self-deluded; they may simply realize that the job of minister or priest is a pedophile’s dream job: get to be alone with kids, having gained the total trust of their parents.

Either way, it’s awfully creepy.

Sorry, that was me, didn’t put my name in.

..chastisement.

I think that is what the Quran says will happen to these individuals in this life and in the next?

Hell.

Oh well!

This amount of calls:

$800 per month, with hundreds of text messages

Seems like a lot for the scenario you propose.

And why would she give—or, rather, have ORU pay for—a cell for herself, only to let the daughters use it? If the Roberts family is having the university pay $29,411 for a trip for the daughters, why balk at a cellphone?

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

The “investigation” by the school’s board of directors will be bogus, at best. It is led by member John Hagee. John Hagee is the evanglist who publicly and continuously proclaimed Hurrican Katrina was God’s way of punishing New Orleans for holding a gay rights parade. This man has admitted (on NPR’s Fresh Air) to writing instructions to the leaders of Israel on how to destroy Palestine. He uses Old Testament verses as suggestions. He has proclaimed the United States as being in a “war against Christianity”.
Don’t expect objective and honest conclusions about this scandal from Hagee or the board.

Greenwald.

Then there’s the whole Katrina is a punishment from God thing. ’Cause Gawd hates fags, and all that.

Tell me again how OR”U” is an extremely mainstream and legitimate university? I forgot why.

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

Was it Richard we saw in the crowd THAT night?
“THAT Manure Storm at Leroy’s Corral”
www.ilovepoetry.com/viewpoem.asp?id=9350…

Most televangelists get around the clothing thing by having the church or organization buy the clothes and keep them as inventory. Some evangelists have taken advantage of this by preaching vow of poverty, claiming to own nothing, as even the shirt on their back is owned by someone else.

A scam by any other name is still a scam!!

Put it this way. It seems like it would have come out much earlier if Mrs. Roberts was texting underage males at a rate of $800/month, because regardless of her predilections, there just are’t many underage males interested in middle-aged mothers, Christian or no. The texting would have been instantly broadcast by one of them.

I think it was almost certainly one of the daughters texting.

Matt’s right. There are more or less normal people there more or less getting a good education, as with most schools. I went there for 2 years, though had the sense to get out. Had a sibling graduate. Both of my parents—very intelligent AND liberal people—taught there. Had some fantastic professors (and some hacks). So, it’s not as simple as a bunch of rednecks running around. In fact, my fellow students were highly motivated and hard working—-they just happened to also run to the creepy, hard-core, Democrats-are-Communists end of things. I had more respect for the old man but none for the son, so this is not surprising. What’s a damn shame, as the case by the 3 professors attests to, is the degradation of lots of good effort by the faculty and students. They would be better off elsewhere.

I see the argument that “it would have come out before now.”

Why give a cell to the daughters, though? When you’re spending $29,000 on a vacation right out front, why launder a cell phone bill for the daughters through the Mom?

And as far as “it would have come out by now,” maybe. Depends on how tight the community was, how willing the students would be to confront an authority figure, and so on.

I should also say that ORU is by no means the worst university in the world. However, with regents as above, and what the second generation of Roberts is doing to it, it’s only a matter of time. See comment on original post on treasures.

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

Let me guess James - you’re gay? Damn mean ol’ Christians just want in your bedroom, don’t they?

You label your site anti-torture, not true, if it were the case you would need to quit blogging.
Apparently you have a game of hide the Jew going on. “Come on Proles, its the Middle class Christians who are responsible for your plight kill’em kill’em!” Prestidigitators. Lou Pearleman, who’s he. He’s the Billionaire Record Producer who likes to fellate young boys. Abra Kadabra, he’s gone. Roman Polanski, you said that 13 year old girl seduced you and manipulated you into sodomizing her to the point of rupture. Just step in the wardrobe stage right. Alakazam! Pedophile no more. Award winning Director emerge. Folsom Street Fair exposing toddlers to Sado-Masochistic Gay Sex. Just a tap of the fairy wand and presto, never happened.
Here’s to the wake that will inevitably drown you rats leaving the sinking ship and indoctrinated “christianists” behind.

I am not a proponent of Doing Wrong, yet It is equally wrong to slander, even in alledged situations. God is truly the only conclusive Judge in all things. I do agree that when wrong is exclusively uncovered justice should be served. In all fairness being judgmental, even critically so, is not a formidible righteous act anymore than those who are determinently guilty of those alledged criminal acts. I am not defending the virtue of those who have accosted the good will of others or their resources. I am however interested in the Lord’s Law that reminds all men/women that you will reap what you sew. This law applies to all people.

If all people were caught in every single instance of unspeakable wrongs and held at the capital pinnacle of an “eye for an eye” there could be no grace, nor any forgiveness of wrongs done however catastrophic the appearances of it are.

There is only one true Judge “Jesus the Christ.” While governmentally the chosen judges of our land preside as an honorable office, their election is still permitted by the authority of God himself.

I write all this to emplore a reasonable consideration to abolish clamorous expressions and to incite a prayerful approach to invite God to have His Omnipotent way in the ORU - Roberts mess.

Bolshevik Mentality
Appeal to Thinking Outside the Box

just axin’…
A Quick Study, But A Slow Learner

Absent truly obvious markers (most of which are caught by the system anyhow), trollishness is established by a pattern of behavior, rather than by foolishness.

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

I miss that reasoned discourse!

We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

I am a current ORU student and I must say that this scandal is not surprising. I go to an ORU grad program and find it to be a very legitimate school with good professors. However, I do believe the theology to be very misguided and for that reason I am looking into finishing my degree elsewhere. I have gone to ORU for a while because it is convenient with good professors, but if I were a German living in the Nazi era I wouldn’t work for Adolf Hitler just because it were convenient. I got out of the Army because I didn’t agree with working for George W. Bush, and I will most likely leave ORU because I don’t believe in paying into the pockets of a scamming televangelist either. Vaya con Dios!

Tho I’m surprised to hear you think the profs are so great. At SMU, faced with the Liebury being deposited there defacing the reputation of all, profs are trying to oust it or get out.

You’re not far from U TX, a top rated school. Good luck.

Ruth

It’s you’re, NOT your

Sure sounds like the preachers wife has been going down on someone other than the preacher.

what program are you pursuing your grad degree in?

oru’s in Tulsa, or near it, innit? University of Tulsa’s got a decent rep…OSU at stillwater’s not that far away, and that’s a comprehensive Univ. not that far from Norman, either.

the size of the university might be an intimidating factor for an undergrad experience, but it’s a huge advantage on the grad school level. it means more and better profs, with more diverse interests (and better chances to find advisors with whom you actually have something in common) and better (Library/Connectivity/travel) resources. The biggest class I ever was in as a student was statistics, which was required throughout the college, and so all the grad students hadda take it. maybe 20-30 students, max. (Literally, I passed by writing doggerel using statistical vocabulary. True story.)
…i’d be interested in why you went to oru in the first place? got a scholarship/assistanship? a mentor?
…anyway, good luck.
Me? A Quick Study, But A Slow Learner

The Roberts? Along with the Bakkers, Swaggert, Haggard and a Canadian from the Janz Team? All piglets of the same sow.

I do not believe it is accurate to call these people Christians. Their sins being brought out in the news today is nothing compared to the going on’s of the past thirty years or more. Do a little research and send your donations to true followers of God’s word like a local small Church whose Pastor works for reasons other than riches on Earth.

During the four years I worked on the ORU campus back in the late 1990s and Early 2000s I heard from reliable sources that ORU’s current Finance and Operations VP, who back in 1997 was the head boss at the ORU Mabee Center Business office, periodically missused revenue earned by the University’s Mabee Center Ticket Office. One of the most well known missuses in the office at that time was when he stole funds and gave them to a 20 year old female relative of his. The funds were given to her so she could obtain breast enlargment surgery for herself. This young relative had also dated Richard Robert’s personal pilot, who was at least 20 years older than she at the time they dated each other. Back then the current university financial comptroller, who has been fired only recently after ORU’s latest scandel broke this week, worked in the Mabee Center as the boss of the the Mabee Center financial office.

For the funds that the Mabee Center’s business office boss stole for the young relative’s breast enlargement surgery to be undetectable in the audits; the Mabee Center financial office boss had to also have been involved in the theft.

During the four years I worked on the ORU campus back in the late 1990s and Early 2000s I heard from reliable sources that ORU’s current Finance and Operations VP, who back in 1997 was the head boss at the ORU Mabee Center Business office, periodically missused revenue earned by the University’s Mabee Center Ticket Office. One of the most well known missuses in the office at that time was when he stole funds and gave them to a 20 year old female relative of his. The funds were given to her so she could obtain breast enlargment surgery for herself. This young relative had also dated Richard Robert’s personal pilot, who was at least 20 years older than she at the time they dated each other. Back then the current university financial comptroller, who has been fired only recently after ORU’s latest scandel broke this week, worked in the Mabee Center as the boss of the the Mabee Center financial office.

For the funds that the Mabee Center’s business office boss stole for the young relative’s breast enlargement surgery to be undetectable in the audits; the Mabee Center financial office boss had to also have been involved in the theft.

Did you know that when I worked there student employees, numerous times, commented with staff and among themselves about the high number of gay students who at that time had been allowed to be admitted to ORU, and who were permitted to live in the dorms on campus.

patience

ALOHA this is soooo wild and interesting. Here at our church in Honolulu where the Roberts visit from time to time and are good friends of the Sepulveda’s www.wordoflifehawaii.com our annointed pastors also live the lavish lifestyle: multi-million dollar waterfront compound, drive hummers, range rovers, 7 series BMW and of course jet set 1st class around the world sharing the love of Jesus at the expense of thousands of suckers here on the island.

Not to mention the scandal a few years ago with their “supernatural” Word of Life Academy that proclaims their students are 2-3 yrs ahead of the public schools of Hawaii. Recently “annointed pastor” Ashley Sepulveda 21 year old who rocked the school and church with her pregnancy and drug distribution among the students. Amazing it was all ok when Pastor Art Sepulveda announced to the church that fellow senior student and praise and worship leader Josh was the father of the “annointed” child….it seemed to have made it all ok for the church…forgiveness was overwhelming until…. the unexpected happened. Josh announced publicly that he was gay! OOPs maybe he wasn’t the father. After several dna test it was found out that Josh was not the father after all…OOPs!

Several years later and many many court dates paternity has been established and quietly Pastor Ashley has continued her life of debauchery and whoredom all financed by the church. Not to mention it is she that drove the Hummer, had the $6000 boob job and recently was seen at a local bar in Waikiki being baptized with alcohol Hawaiian Style! Praise the Lord! Then back to church on Sunday of on the platform on Friday Nights EMERGE YOUTH SERVICE shaking her bootie for Jesus scantily dressed on the platform. All in the name of the Lord!!!

The same school and ministry has seen the turnstyle annointing with people fired and “released for increase” for not aligning their hearts with the “vision of the father” could it be daddy Art Sepulveda? or mamma Kuna? It can’t be coincidental that lavish lifestyles such as the Robert’s who so happen to be friends of the Sepulveda’s is not the same or parallel.

Does anyone know about this church? They are also connected to our heavenly Godfather Cesar Castellanos from Bogota, Columbia and have implemented the G12 Cult movement at Word of Life Hawaii

Help! Stranded on an island!

I knew there was a reason God never led me to WOL Honolulu. Now I know why. I only wish God would also cleanse Hawaii of the hate-white people spirit that dwells there. I have been through so much hate from dark-skinned people there I have learned to stay around fellow whites for safety reasons. Sad, sad, sad. And how in the world can they allow someone in leadership who is not living a godly life? Crazy.

I am not surprised by this situation at all. I think the majority of the allegations regarding the Roberts are true. I’ve met both Richard and Lindsay Roberts and found them to be incredibly fake, holier-than-thou people who think they should be untouchable.

The university makes a practice of regularly lying/covering up for their benefit. There were always rumors going around about the Roberts while I was there, specifically about Lindsay Roberts who proceeded to ’hunt down’ the person who posted her personal opinion of Lindsay R. online. The poor girl was in my class, a class that Lindsay was teaching when she called the girl out and called her a b*tch to her face and said God would never have mercy on her.

If you suspect a bitter tinge to this story, I was lured to the university with almost a full scholarship for art and was lied to by staff about how ’up-to-date’ their technology was, how great the professors were, etc. Come to find out, their graphic design lab had 3-4 yr old computers, their classrooms were in the ’dungeon’ of the school in musty, leak-ridden rooms, and the head of the art department at the time was a total joke. His greatest claim to fame was being the art director for “Hee Haw”, (which he particularly liked to tout.)

Now I am a Christian. A dedicated one at that, and I witnessed some of the most deporable actions committed by so-called Christians (the Roberts, Professors, Students) that I have ever witnessed while in my time there at ORU. 2002-2003… btw. I will say this…

Swails (one of the professors involved in the suit) was a wonderful professor who was one of the good guys there. I didn’t know the Brookers, but Prof. Swails was well-liked by students, always honest, and rightfully critical of some of the practices by the school.

cuz afterall, whaddathey gotta complain about? they got a free ride to USer citizenship, dinney?
Oh, sure, we overthrew their “king” and “queen,”—she was FAT!—and stole their islands, and murdered their people, and tried to destroy their culture.
Big whoo!
Whakina culture was it? They have only two directions in their language…they wore feathers and fought with palm sticks and sharp stones…
they’re much better off with US white folks in charge! they got cars and dvd players, and all they gotta do is lie around all day and surf and eat and smoke week and have babies they cant afford…
chuy, that’s the life…

Me? A Quick Study, But A Slow Learner

I have read throuh all of the comments and I must admit that the are cruel. Initially, I thought I felt the same way but after reading these comments I am ashamed of myself and of you all. I don’t want to be in company with people like you all. Yes, I have issue with ORU but I am not going to lower myself to such low levels because I choose to go there, or because I don’t agree with the adminstration. That is the beauty of choice and free will. I graduated from ORU with a M.Div. (That’s a Master of Divinity for those of you who only read smut magazines) I must say that I was taught by some world renowned and world class professors. Professors who are well published and well sought after in many areas. If it were not for my professors my time there would have been in vain. Thank GOD for them.

I was not a brain washed automaton as a student and I still am not. I truly take offense to the ignorant comments many of you have made about the faculty, staff and students. There are some things about the UNIVERSITY that are wrong I admit but to slam everything and everybody associated witht the UNIVERSITY is just ignorant and it support the “Christianist” view of you.

Let it go Aloha Artie,
Your love can cover a multitude. It sounds like you were once a WOLCC attendee or staff. My heart goes out to you. Wow it must be tuff to deal with. The real issue is “you” and your heart. Every church is imperfect and will have imperfect people and sinners and what not. No matter were you go, life is not fair. Let it go move on so God can bless you again.

God is working out all the details regardlees of how opinionated others are. I thank you for your compassion and words of disciplined truth. I too graduated from ORU with a Pastoral Care Degree. I received a very fine education and the evangelism program humbled me in many ways. I am grateful to God’s goodness to permit me to receive a valuable and challenging education.

This is what is so STINKING funny, …we can watch horror movies, go to bars, pubs, strip clubs, listen to music that degrades a woman’s body, curse, slander, gossip, outspend our living expenses, rely on Mom and Dad to cover our desire to live sumptuously, break the speed limit, lust after the opposite sex, look at perversion on the internet, steal, gamble, lie and many other things. We still may ask God to bless us, keep us, bless our meals, pray for someone once in a while, and to top it off attend church ourselves and justify our very existence.

Have you ever barrowed a book and never returned it? Have you ever taken a pencil or pen that was not yours? Have you ever called in sick and you really were not sick? Have you ever agreed to do something and forgot that you even said it in the first place? Have you ever been late for a date, work, appointment? Have you ever spent more than you should have?

“Loose lips… sink ships.” “A foolish man utters all his mind, but a wise man holds it in till afterwards.” These are a couple of principles I take with me. If I am honest about the above statements I am just as guilty as the next guy/gal for being wrong. The only difference is the variable in the dollar amount.

Love covers a multitude of sins, but the fool harbors evil against his neighbor.

Scott

Je repete a portion of the original post which most of the ORU advocates on this thread seem unwilling to confront or even address:

Building institutions in the public square is, exactly, laying up treasures on earth (Matthew 6:19). Which is every Christianist’s right, bless their heart. But they shouldn’t try to kid themselves, or deceive us, that their enterprise is anything more than an power grab to impose their set of tribal so-called “values” on the rest of us. Their enterprise has nothing to do with religion. By definition, it can’t. Which is why Jesus warned against the Pharisees, of whom the Roberts family is but the latest incarnation.

So, I couldn’t agree with the poster more.

And once the Christianist political machine that’s taken over the Republican party stops trying to work evil, I’ll believe they’re not fools.

Meanwhile, I suggest that the Christianists, instead of prating about being denied the public square in which they are all too visible, look to their own house and clean up their act.

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

This is shocking as I read this. First they should’t have let a 21 year old be a Pastor they aren’t seasoned or ready for it. Paul talks about the leaders that should be older and seasoned. Also this word of faith message is not truth. 1Timothy 6: 3-10. (and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that Godliness is a means to financial gain. We are to withdrawal ourselves from these people. This church should be shut down, and leaders in the community should call these people involved to accountability and repentance. It appears that this lady can do as she pleases including sin and still preach. This is appalling. The Word of God says they have corrupt minds and from such withdraw thyself, verse 5. Get away from them. I get very wary from people who tell you to get over it and that there is no perfect church. Believe the Word of God and do what it says get away from them, and pray that they will come to a spirit of repentance.

Yes Love does cover a multitude of sins, according to the Word, but that doesn’t mean they should stay in their sins. God calls everyone to repentance that means turn from sin, and don’t do it anymore. That doesn’t mean turning your face from leaders who are sinning, and let them continue in their sins without calling them to accountability. It is called tough Love, as we disciplined our children when they were young, to teach them that there are consequences for wrong doing, so shall leaders should be dealt with. If they are genuine in their repentance then you shall see it and know it. Ecclesiastes 8:11 When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried our, the hearts of the poeple are filled with schemes to do wrong. It is important to bring truth out and deal with it.

He’s guilty. I like to supplement my Sunday with a couple of the TV evangelist’s sermons. Sometimes I hit on Oral’s site w/o knowing it or rather w/o doing so on purpose.

90% of those times that I pass through his TV Church Service he’s asking for a “love offering”.

Majority of the scammer evangelists are always asking for money to fund their “activities”.

Wow.

All You folks need to get lives.

No, really.

speaking of the “grip”, Roberts and his wife could be incarcerated in the thumbs of the big hands tower. that’d rake in the big tourist attraction bucks too!

*

is very rare indeed, especially on TV. They may start out sincere but the lights go to their heads. lol

I noticed a Nancy Irving on here, are you the one that lived in Benton, KY for a while?

Patty

You guy’s would not know the truth if it bit you in the @#$. First off if any of you were in the roberts shoes, and most of you guys secretly wish you were in the position these people are in only without the scandal. You are all haters be honest if you were in their place you would not be corrupt. You would be absolutely corrupt face it guys you are all jealeous and behaving like children on the school playground who take pleasure at someones pain, shame on all of you. Our legal system says inocent until proven guilty by a jury of our peers. I gues that means that you all have been to collge and have at least a masters degree, and they have called you to serve as jurors cool. From the post that I have seen I doubt that to be the case. You folks just keep hating. People you are secretly jealous of and those of us who know better will pray for you

You hell bound atheist! I hope you got your asbestos drawers ready! I am not one of those namby pamby Christians. I am one that will kick your ass!
Christians aren’t perfect…they are forgiven, fool!
The kings kids are sometimes spoiled brats, but they have the bloodline. Do you?
You hate God, don’t you? Thats really your problem.

Me? Nah, i don’t hate ’god.’ What’s to hate? Really, there’s nothing there.

Me? A Quick Study, But A Slow Learner

“In the Roberts shoes”? No, “how beautiful are thy feet with shoes” (Song of Solomon 7:1) isn’t the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of those guys, believe me. Most abuse of power looks pathetic, after the abuser is exposed. So with the Roberts dynasty.

As for hating God, as Woody points out, that would be like hating the Great Pumpkin. Nothing there to hate…

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

This is just another example of what greed can do to you. Granted these are just accusations, but with so many implied improprieties in the wind (now as in the past)I think the press is right on track. Nobody is above the law, they just think they are.

Anyone who’s served on a jury recently is well aware that the ones that get picked are generally the ’sinner’ types, because they will have more sympathy for the accused. Us degreed types, like Woody who actually has 2 masters and assorted others, usually don’t get picked.

This upswelling of bitterness from the right must be their Halloween mood. The ghoulies and goblins come out at this time of year.

Ruth

I got a message from God. He loves your raggedy, hateful,prickly pear ass!
He’s coming to visit you tonight. Be ready because he comes with all cataclysmic power and a host of millions of angels.
I asked Him to vist your hateful soul.

I stepped on a bug this morning. He was an atheist bug. He didn’t know I existed before I turned his ass into ant juice.

Want more?

when somebody hurts you and you’re powerless to stop them it makes you angry.

when you find out after the fact that you helped them hurt you because they misled you and played you, it makes you want to spread the hurt.

In the secular world, it’s called breach of contract (and/or, depending on available evidence, intentional fraud).

In the sexual world it’s called getting dumped (or finding out you’ve been two-timed).

In the spiritual world it’s called “disillusionment”.

The common theme here?

Remember that Jeep commercial a few years ago where the vehicle started to shake, and didn’t stop until it looked like it had just come off the showroom floor — while the dog, the owner, his wife, their kid, the McMansion and the sports gear all acquired a nubbly thick coat of lumpy brown?

We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

on the heqad a pin? a drum? my dick?

oooooooooooooooh, yeah, i’m worried sick…
Me? A Quick Study, But A Slow Learner

Or did He just leave it in the mailbox?

We. Are. Going. To. Die. We must restore hope in the world. We must bring forth a new way of living that can sustain the world. Or else it is not just us who will die but everyone. What have we got to lose? Go forth and Fight!—Xan

Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart that there is no God.

Just keep talking to your dick. Very intelligent.

You are on your own. Those lying, hating demons that control your mind know about God. When He comes they will be GONE, believe me.

God is not coming to scare you. He is coming to talk to you, but he often brings the host with him.

One blink of his eyelash could turn your pitiful hide into a million particles of atoms and your mass into a puddle of water. He can divide your soul from your spirit and turn you into an animal like Nebuchadnezzar in the book of Daniel.
Jesus Christ kicked the butt of all principalities and powers(especially the demons you serve), and embarassed them openly. He is the Victor and he has given that power to his followers. If we mess up we answer to him, not a bunch of whiny god haters, who could not even take a breath if it were not for God.
God is a spirit, you mind is too limited to figure him out.
Oral Roberts fault was telling small minded carnal people what God told him. They don’t understand with the spirit.They understand with their limited intellect like brute beasts according to the Bible.

If you know nothing about God, you need to stop the blasphemy because He is not to be played with.
I asked Him to come and talk to you tonight and He is going to do it. Get ready.

head is spelled “h e a d”
You are made in the image of God. You are greater than your dick!

Want more?

why won’t you acknowledge Him?

You come here making what appear to be threats, but you refuse to identify yourself in any way.

Leads me to believe you not only know your threats are empty, but you’re an agent provocateur trying to start trouble with people who believe, as well as people who think.

Or are you really one of those poor deluded pathetic individuals who need to hide behind the spectre of a Christ indistinguishable from Jet Li?

You misinterpret the Bible, you fall for the violence and the vengeance, and you defame the Lord with your vanity.

Either own up to who and what you are and ask God for forgiveness privately or show yourself openly here.

We can admit that we’re killers … but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

Mene, mene tekel uparshin!

Me? A Quick Study, But A Slow Learner

I esteem You, oh wise one, high potentate, God of the internet slanders and haters of all that is good!

I bow low to your imagined intellectual prowess! I grovel at you imagined importance and your able effervescence!

I salute your exalted figger-outness and your esteemed brilliantosity!

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool with his own stupidity, or he will think he is wise.

I am still smarter than you.

Want more?

I may be a dick, but I have a va jj. I am a woman kicking your ass today.

Exodus 3:14

anonymous coward

ORU is not a place to satisfy man, but God.
Therefore we don’t give a rat’s ass what YOU think.

The gays are a nuisance.
Homosexuality is a pervesion and a fetish.
If any man (or woman) be in Christ he or she is a new creation. Why hang onto something the God has told you He DESPISES in the book of Romans. Why would you want to be around people ho hate homosexuality with a passion?
When my toddler plays in the toilet I tell him to STOP IT!
If Gays choose to keep their life style, it would seem more sensible to be somewhere that agrees spiritually with it.
Gay people should have all the rights and privileges as all other tax people but nobody is going to make me believe its rights when God says it is sin.
When I was in the world, I learn to NEVER EVER NEVER say what I was doing was RIGHT when it was wrong. It wasn’t. Don’t decieve yourself by calling wrong ’right’.
If you want to please God you will have to give up sin, Like the Roberts will have to get serious and give up their lavish life style, but they are kings kids and the king will deal with them and not internet sladerers.

Want more?
Anonymous coward

I stepped on a bug this morning. He was an atheist bug. He didn’t know I existed before I turned his ass into ant juice.

And when the flesh on your bones rots in the earth you will not know of the insects who will dine upon your rotting corpse. ’Twas ever thus. Note: cremation is not cheating per se, just substitute flaming gas jets for the little omnivores.

++++

When one’s arguments rest on quicksand only a fool approaches.

But I am such a fool. What stands out for me in addressing the strident and non-self-reflecting on subjects such as this one is that, yes, humans are fallible, and make choices that are often less than what passes for moral ones. But what sticks out even more is when Christianists point the finger of blame everywhere around them, and then get all bent out of shape when their own hypocrisy (or behaviors of their high priests) are highlighted.

Atheists do not threaten those different from them with spiritual threats of eternal hellfire and suffering, nor do agnostics. Does a Christian enjoy the suffering of others, or feel satisfaction that another is forever doomed (I know, all they have to do is repent and accept the lord—how does anyone really know what anyone else has to do to be eternally safe from the wrath of the God they reportedly love?) There is so much talk of “values” that one is left with the word stripped of any meaning.

If one trumpets Christianity as superior to all other forms of worship or non-worship, then falls back on “well, we’re all sinners” whenever yet another leader of Christians comes crashing out of the clouds with hookers and new shoes and meth-anointed massages in tow—how much respect does your dogma really deserve if your own fellow believers routinely trash it? What is the point of the narrowest interpretations of priestly Semitic writings as they apply to non-Semites? How can one say the Old Testament is revealed Truth and then bash jews? Christianity is a nightmare of competing storylines that can never jibe without submerging one’s brain in buckets of bleach and cheap bourbon. Not that there’s anything wrong with that…

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you and pluck the beam from your eye: how many of us need much more instruction in morality and love than that? And when your leaders rip off your fellow believers perhaps Christians might consider doing a little more actual housecleaning instead of the broom-and-lifted-rug method.

Good luck to all who seek harmony with life and its mystery, as well as with its revealed splendors and demands. Pray the Giant God Bug doesn’t squash you on your way to church.

++++

The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the face of the earth and men do not see it.

++++

too much. Seriously. Can’t tell if you’re a concern troll or a (poor) satirist, but either way you’re not kicking anybody’s ass here today. You see, you lack imagination.
You lack a discerning heart. You fail to understand the principle Christ explained:
“For as much as you have not done it unto the least of these, you have not done it unto Me.”

Christ didn’t come to Earth to lead a vapid chorus of technically-adept, spiritually-bereft singers of discredited songs, nor to praise the bigots and thieves whose penny-ante dictatorialism so burdened the children of Israel that they forgot, in their efforts to conform, what God stood for and how God wanted them to live. Had Christ been what you claim not only wouldn’t He have upbraided the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy, He would never have gone willingly to the Cross to save your sorry arrogant unrepentant self-important soul.

And the Letter to the Romans is the work of Paul, formerly Saul of Tarsus, whose conversion story — while miraculous — and whose exploits later all point to one thing: no personal contact with the Lord while He walked the shores of Galilee and the streets of Jerusalem.

Imagination is an aspect of intelligence.
Intelligence is a gift of creation.
Without intelligence there can be no true worship.
The Lord Your God seeks not the vain chanting of the infidel, the endless repetition of the Philistines, the public vanity of the prayer of the Pharisee, the Sadducee, the scribe.
The Lord Your God seeks an open heart, a humble spirit, a willing obedience, and an intelligent servant.

Can you grasp these concepts?

Or are you too brainwashed to understand that the same God who gave you sight and sense expected you to use those gifts in service to God by working for the betterment, not of a chosen few rich con artists, but all God’s creation?
John 3:19