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Chris Badgers Howard

letsgetitdone's picture

Today, Chris Matthews asked Howard Dean for his interpretation of the results in Massachusetts. Howard told him that it was because voters wanted more than they were getting from Washington and that they were angry at Washington. He also said that Coakley's defeat was due not only to Independents voting for Brown, but also to progressives who either voted for him, or decided to stay home. And he pointed out that a Democracy for America poll showed that 18% of Brown voters voted for Obama, and that 60% of these wanted a Public Option (PO). He also pointed out that of the Obama voters who stayed home, 80% favored a PO.

At this point Chris jumped on Howard. He pointed out that Coakley was a progressive candidate, to the left of Obama, and that she had supported a public option throughout her campaign and had called herself the 60th vote for health care reform; and that Brown was a right-winger and follower of Dick Cheney, who had cast himself as the 41st vote against health care reform. And then he characterized the election as the PO candidate vs. the kill the bill candidate. And said that Coakley was for the PO and for reform and she was “blown away.” The voters said no to Coakley and voted for “the kill it guy.” And then Chris asked again what the voters were saying.

Howard replied by saying that they were sending a message against Washington and its failing to deliver change, Chris asked him: “how do you know?” Howard said: We polled. We know that many voters for Brown, and many of those who stayed home were more progressive than the President. Whereupon Chris asked whether they were more progressive than Obama across the board on issues in the campaign, and Howard replied that they were angry about business as usual in Washington, too little done to reform the financial system, bailouts for Wall Street, a bad economy, and a health care “reform” bill that accommodated health care industry and Pharma interests, but did very little for people like them.

Chris then questioned Howard again on how voters who were more progressive than Obama could have voted against the PO candidate and for the kill it candidate, and he suggested that Howard must be saying that progressive voters in Massachusetts were irrational or crazy voters and that Howard's interpretation of the results was contradictory, and he asked how they could be expressing progressive values by voting for Brown.

Howard answered by repeating his thesis that the voters were sending a message to Washington and by repeating some of the evidence from the DFA poll. But Chris just wouldn't accept Howard's explanation, and, apparently remained convinced that progressive voters could not have been a major factor in Coakley's defeat. He claimed that he just couldn’t understand how Howard could contend that many progressives voted for Brown or stayed home when Coakley ran as a progressive in favor of a public option to the left of Obama.

Howard was either too slow or too polite to tell Chris that progressives might have stayed home or voted for Brown, because given Coakley’s announced support for the Senate bill with a mandate and no PO, and also because of her recent fund raiser with health care industry and Pharma lobbyists and industry people, they may have believed that she was lying about her progressive commitments.

Now it's my turn to not understand why this evidently never occurred to Chris. Does he really think that people, progressives among them, don't think that politicians lie, and that their words about what they support can't be taken at face value? Does he really think that just because Coakley claimed to be progressive and in favor of a PO that people would accept her at her word, especially in view of her support of the Senate bill which a) had no PO, and b) also violated her oft-repeated commitments to protect a woman's right to choose? Does he really think that they wouldn't view her as cut from the same cloth as Obama himself who promised a PO and then backed off it, and who has stated his support for woman's reproductive rights many times but hasn't a problem in selling them out to Ben Nelson and Bart Stupak? Is it really so hard for Chris to understand that Massachusetts voters might have voted for Brown rather than Coakley because they cared less who occupied Teddy Kennedy's Senate seat for the next two years, than they cared about sending a message to Barack Obama that they were very displeased with the lack of effectiveness of his Administration in helping them to meet their job, health care, credit, mortgage, housing, and other critical problems?

Well, I guess you might have a problem understanding these things if you're a wealthy villager like Chris, who has loads of fun being a TV talking head every day, and who no longer has to worry about the economics of daily life. But for most others, a big problem is being able to trust what politicians say, especially after Barack Obama's own recent behavior, and most of us, I think, have concluded that what they say in campaigns means nothing, and that we have to watch very carefully what they do. When Coakley assured the Administration that she would be the 60th vote for the Senate bill, and went to that little fund raiser of hers, she blew her cover as a progressive, and revealed to people that she was just another machine politician who they couldn't trust, who would be Obama's dutiful creature. At that point they knew that sending a message of protest to Obama couldn't be done through Coakley, and that if they wanted to do that, then they had to vote for Brown or stay home.

And that is why there is no contradiction between Howard Dean's survey results and Martha Coakley's presentation of herself as the progressive candidate in the race. And guess what, Chris: it ain't rocket science.

(Also posted at firedoglake.com and the Alllifeisproblemsolving blog where there may be more comments)

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Submitted by gmanedit on

They twisted her arm and made her sell out publicly before the election. They should have waited. (The conspiracist part of me wonders if they didn't want to destroy the Hillary holdout. Maybe Cass Sunstein can explain it to me.)

PS: When I saw your headline, I was hoping it was Chris Floyd badgering Howard Dean—that would have been spectacular!

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Submitted by letsgetitdone on

Naw, it was just that fraud Chris Matthews. And you're right, if they really wanted her to win, it was stupid to make her commit to early, and she was stupid to do it.

Valhalla's picture
Submitted by Valhalla on

Something a lot of people are glossing over (or never bothered to check) is that when Coakley said she'd vote for the Senate version, both Obama and his health care plan had over 50% support in Massachusetts. The numbers were very different elsewhere but not here. Of course, it was still stupid since she hadn't been elected yet, but I imagine in their NOW NOW NOW frenzy they traded in what should have been a don't-count-your-chickens strategy for the leverage they imagined a 60th vote would give them in negotiations.

Coakley was never not going to vote for the health care plan, aside from the Stupak amendment; at the same time Bowers is just making stuff up because she didn't campaign on health care, either. She campaigned on her own record. She had a white paper out on health care that called for a strong public option and was vaguely aligned with the Democrats' plan circa Aug/Sept, but that wasn't part of her push in ads or in personal appearances.

Not that Dean is all that trustworthy either, but at least here he's right; people didn't get any of the change they were promised and when they had an opportunity to express their anger, they did.

Submitted by libbyliberal on

I am sorry I missed Howard Dean in the magic box actually telling it like it is. You relay it very clearly and sanely.

I am not sorry to miss one more thick, media seducer bending the truth to attribute success to corporatist Repubs and the irrational right. AGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!

The emperor has no clothes!

I had dinner today near 42nd St, looking out across the street on a huge, huge, huge, 1/4 block long and high billboard of the emperor Obama not naked but wearing a snazzy "weatherproof" jacket. He was standing at the base of the Great Wall of China. A very compelling pic.

I was discussing healthcare with a friend telling two other friends that socialism and the overcontrol of the government was ruining the country. I lost it and told her it was not socialism, it was not too much government, it was too much corporatism. She said the tea party people had the right idea being angry. I told her they had the right feeling, the wrong idea. It is the corporatists, the sociopathic profiteers who have destroyed the public trust, endangered critically in some cases, even, the citizens. The politicians were not empowering the government, they were empowering the corporations.

I don't know much about the billboard situation. I know there are legal objections to it, meanwhile, there it is for all of busy Time Square to witness. The corporatists are using illegally for advantage the image of the president to sell jackets. And use the sluggishness of the wheels of justice to get the mileage out of the ad, and the fine or whatever will be too little too late.

Again, a nice pic of Obama. Using Obama as a "brand". Which is what the corporatists made of him to con the citizens during the election. And then once elected, Obama defied the brand by defying his own mandates. Though the strong branding has kept many apologists ever loyal to the original brand despite the evidence of anti-liberalism, of corporatism at the expense of citizen welfare.

A nice pic, though.

But surreal. Wrong. Unethical. Presumptuous.

These profiteering bottom-feeding scum suckers.

Is Obama a sell out or a learned helpless victim?

Either way, "capture" has occurred and is continuing. Is there no serious accountability? Through Bushco and now Obama the winners are those perpetrating the illegal and unethical?

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Submitted by michaelwb on

But you don't quote, IMO, the best part of the Democracy for America poll:

OBAMA VOTERS WANT DEMOCRATS TO BE BOLDER

* 57% of Brown voters say Obama "not delivering enough" on change he promised
* 49% to 37% among voters who stayed home

PLUS: Obama voters overwhelming want bold economic populism from Democrats in 2010.

I strongly, strongly encourage folks to read the complete poll and the way more interesting stuff, IMO, toward the end of it. It's actually worthy of a post to itself.

Update: Oh, wait it did have a post to itself. I guess I saw Booman mentioned and didn't even dare to click the link since I had just eaten.

letsgetitdone's picture
Submitted by letsgetitdone on

By all means do read the poll. I never say things like that, because it's second nature for me just to save the poll and read it cause I just don't trust anybody. My bad!

vastleft's picture
Submitted by vastleft on

The critic of my enemy is not reliably my friend.

Good on Dean for speaking a little truth, but his "public option" and his advocacy for it still aren't legitimate.

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Submitted by letsgetitdone on

Also, when you here him talk about health care and then advocate against Medicare for All, there's disconnect, and you just know that it's because he's been a Doctor in private practice, and a neo-liberal in economics. He really isn't too progressive. Some see him that way because the political spectrum has swung so far over to the right.

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Submitted by gqmartinez on

Dean gets at least a two-fer here. First, clouding the situation using "public option is Medicare" Dean did much to ensure the passage of the current bill. Second, by tying this crappy bill to Medicare, to go along with Obama's desire for "entitlement reform", Dean weakened the position of Medicare. NOOOOOOW, he gets to raise money (and possibly run for president) by arguing against the bill and to protect Medicare.

I started out a Dean supporter back in 2003, but after seeing him live on many, many occassions: he had a lot of support in the wealthy Silicon Valley area, where I was at the time, so he was always there early in the campaign cycle. What I saw in Dean was one of the sleaziest pols I've encountered. I saw him say different things on different days. I guess you can say that I don't trust a thing out of Dean's mouth being anything other than out of self-interest.

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Submitted by letsgetitdone on

I think he inconsistent from time to time, and his opposition to Medicare for All was probably influential in getting many progressives to go for the PO nonsense.

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Submitted by letsgetitdone on

But I guess we have to be thankful for small blessings.

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