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Anybody else but me wondering if Condi deked Bhutto back to Pakistan, knowing she'd get killed?

Just asking. Since apparently we were handling her intel.

I mean, just because our boy Musharaff is going to do just fine out of this, at least when the shooting dies down, that would be no reason to think that Bush double-crossed his strongest political enemy, right?

Sure, wild speculation, but if I had a nickel for every time I haven't been cynical enough about these guys....

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kelley b's picture
Submitted by kelley b on

Did Deadeye Dick shoot Pakistan in the face?

You might want to take a look-see at the pic of the "non-assassin" Larisa's got.

Looks like a Company hit to me.

Note also: this is not the side the explosion happened on. The explosion, from early videos I saw that have since been disappeared, came from the rear. The hitman seems to be flanking the car.

No Hell below us
Above us, only sky

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

is that the "gunman" circled in red is wearing a black coat in the top frame and a brown coat in the lower frame.

Not only was he a master of disguise and a crack shot but also a quick-change artist; and how about that disappearing act for the grand finale?

Some Pakistani journalist (credibility unknown) on MSNBC the other day said that there were 1,000,000 people in the country who would have been willing to kill her. There are now only 999,997 remaining who would be willing to kill her successor. We will never know the truth of it.

Submitted by [Please enter a... (not verified) on

Inflicting death on anonymous strangers, preferably by second hand ("I just advise on policy") resulting in somebody pushing a button thousands of miles away, is one thing. Sitting with somebody over tea and looking into their eyes to advise them on a course which you expect will lead directly to their flesh being ripped into little bits is something else. I don't think Condi's got that kind of balls.

One item about the new vids today which I haven't heard anybody else on the nooze mention, but which was the first thought to occur to both the Prince and I, was....did either the shooter or the bomber know the other was even there?

I can see that the bomber might have been told about the shooter..."Wait until you hear gunfire, then commence martyrdom operations!"...but the bomber by definition expects to die. I can see the shooter on the other hand accepting a risky mission but holding onto the hope he could drop the gun and disappear into the crowd in the chaos and get away.

Shorter version was that you had your Oswald and your Ruby on the same stage at the same time. Thus do they try to say history never repeats itself.

Submitted by lambert on

... that every programming problem requires a level of indirection to solve.

So, I buy Xan's argument. Condi wants to play her piano while people get killed outside her window; she doesn't want to actually do the killing herself.

So, what if somebody deked Condi into deking Bhutto?

By all accounts, deking Condi is not all that hard to do....

[x] Any (D) in the general. [ ] Any mullah-sucking billionaire-teabagging torture-loving pus-encrusted spawn of Cthulhu, bless his (R) heart.

kelley b's picture
Submitted by kelley b on

The alledged non-bomber has a coat with brown sleeves and a black vest.

Condi is perfectly deluded enough to believe her own lies to Bhutto about protection.

Cheneyburton knew who to hire to get the job done.

No Hell below us
Above us, only sky

Submitted by [Please enter a... (not verified) on

I believe she was picking up way too much support from the Pakistani people for the likings of bush and cheney. They do not want their boy, musharraf, to be removed from power after they spent all that money and lives(Which mean nothing to them)to get him there. She was just supposed to be an appeaser.

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

but you're right kb, my eyes just couldn't see that hideous combination. If the islamists would let their gay guys out of the closet to do a little designing, they'd be better turned out.

Too many crazy people. Whatever was promised or not from the US, Benazir knew there were people out to kill her and still she stood up through the sunroof. It was a bulletproof car, no one inside was injured. No blame there for anyone else, but I’m guessing we’ll have to wait for the Oliver Stone film to know for sure.

Sarah's picture
Submitted by Sarah on

when I posted on martyrs to begin with.

Bhutto stood up in the car, so it was suicide? Hardly. She was at a political rally; a rally for the party that she was leading; a rally for the people she hoped would elect her in a few days (by the way, the Pakistani government today announced no elections could possibly occur before "late February".)

JFK rode in an open car.
He chose to go to Dallas.
His brother chose to run for President after he was slain -- and chose to campaign hard, and was on his way to greet his voters after winning California when he died.
JFK Jr. chose to learn to fly a plane, and to use his license to take himself and his wife and a friend from place to place.

Anwar Sadat made the choice to attend that review.

Martin Luther King Junior walked out onto that balcony.

George Wallace went to that political rally.

Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan chose to be President, and appear in public afterward.

There's no absolute safety. Bruce Lee died of an aneurysm.

But Bhutto is a martyr in the eyes of her people, and it is an ill-considered behavior to try and deny her that status among her people, especially now. Especially with some inane contention that she is at fault, alone, for her death.

We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill today! ~ Captain James T. Kirk, Stardate 3193.0

bringiton's picture
Submitted by bringiton on

to pick myself up and dust myself off.

To be perfectly clear; her death is the fault of the people who killed her. My only suggestion was that the assassination was greatly facilitated by her standing up through the sunroof. Condi Rice didn’t make her do that. Dick Cheney didn’t make her do that. Musharraf didn’t make her do that. I didn’t suggest that her death was a suicide; I have no idea whatsoever about what was in her mind, or what her intentions were in any regard. What is, I think, undeniable is that the decision to stand was hers and hers alone.

Her car was exiting the compound where she’d spoken, a walled area secured by police and her own security. People had been searched before entry, she had spoken at length and nothing untoward had happened. Once outside, no such protection was possible. Have you ever been in those kinds of settings, thousands of people milling around? It just isn’t possible to provide real security without clearing the streets and covering the rooftops and that wasn’t being done; her only security at that point was staying inside the car.

I’m afraid you lost me a bit with the list of dead and wounded. Some of them indeed had received credible death threats before they died, but none as I recall had a bomb go off in front of their car just two months earlier, nor were any of them the target of public calls for their death from the heads of multinational organizations known for their expertise in assassinations and with hundreds of thousands of fanatical adherents with easy access. It may well be that her death was inevitable, that there was no safety for her anywhere once she returned to Pakistan; it’s a horrible story unfolding under horrible circumstances, where none of the players is innocent and there are no clean hands.

As to the validity of her martyrdom, that would be a judgment for her admirers to make and they should by all means feel free to do so. I have my doubts that the benighted people of Pakistan were ever going to get anything remotely approaching prosperity or security from Benazir, anymore than they will from Musharraf or the islamists, but I am viewing this from far away and through Western eyes.

We all have our lists of heroes and martyrs; I expect ours overlap more than not. Travis and Bowie and Crockett can go by unchallenged, but I have to draw the line – for myself – at Benazir.

chicago dyke's picture
Submitted by chicago dyke on

saftey." let's make it, "they can kill you at any time, and we are all pawns and slaves to them."

i'm not going to speculate re: the Lone Sunroofer or the Double Rupee theory. it's always a question of "follow the money" for me, and in this case, all the potentials are on the payroll. capiche?

it's out of control over there, really just outside traditional analysis. spies, adventurers, drug dealers, mercs, slavers, puppets, warlords, theocrats, hoardes of bored, poor, angry young men, and of course...billions and billions of dollars. do you really think the terminology from the Universe of the Rule of Law is useful, as we describe what happens there?

who killed bhutto? does it really matter? what matters is that political opposition is impossible, a literally deadly activity, in pakistan. what also matters: we taxpayers are supporting this environment, making it thrive and to the detriment of our national security.

which candidate can say so, plainly, and which of them has the plan to fix it? that's what i want to know.